Helping my kid, need help. A/C Compressor & Condenser

Hello,

Any help is appreciated.
2003 Eddie Bauer Expedition @ 160K, it is my daughter's only car with family of 4
I don't have the full story and my information is third hand so I will do m best.

I am somewhat in the doghouse since I recommended the mechanic (taken my car there a few times with no issues)

Took it into the shop yesterday for Condenser and Compressor replacement
On way home it overheated
Mechanic met them and said it just needed some coolant and that is not checked as part of A/C service
Bottle was cracked and supposedly he showed evidence it was not a new issue

Expy needs a new Head Gasket, and they dont want to fix as "it is just a matter of time before the engine blows" - huh?
New shop said "There is a pressure test that should have been done" - huh?

AFAIK the A/C is a sealed system and completely independent of the Engine.

Any advice / analysis is appreciated as the dog house is not too comfy! saying is true "no good deed goes unpunished"

Sorry to hear about your daughters car. I was recently reminded that I am but a "shade tree mechanic" so consider that before you take my advice. You are correct that ac is independent but on some cars, running the Ac can heat them up a little. That being said, if the head gasket is blown, I would not think this one time event caused that. In my experience a head gasket will go after repeated overheating, usually not just the first, though im sure that's possible. I don't see how the Ac part replacement caused the overheating, but hopefully the mechanic would have seen s sign of coolant leak. Still it's hard to say it's his fault if I understand your scenario. Hope that helps. I could be wrong but that has been my experience.

Well the statement about the ac system being independent from the engine isn't true on the Expy's. The engine is used to drive the compressor and the fan clutch and cooling fan is used to draw air across the condenser. A failed fan clutch can/will cause an engine to overheat.

How was it determined that it needs a new headgasket?

Cooling systems are pressurized to test for leaks - normal test when coolant is disappearing.

Get the facts first hand and then we can advise on accurate info.

I see your point Stamp, i guess interdependent may be a good way to look at it. There's a reason for the signs that say "Turn off AC next #miles" like the Baker grade outside Vegas.

My thought was that by replacing a condenser and compressor, the mechanic theoretically should not have interfered with anything cooling related like a clutch fan or radiator. Of course the condenser and radiator sit quite close together, so I suppose anything is possible. I have to imagine they tested the ac after they finished.

I don't have as much experience with these engines, but I've overheated both ford and chevy v8s (not on purpose), and they were both quite robust. Stamp's advice to get the facts is helpful so it's not a he said/she said.

That being said, IMO, if the ENGINE cooling system was functioning properly prior to this repair, an AC repair should not have distressed the cooling system so much so to cause a severe overheat resulting in head gasket failure. Again, anything is possible, and I'm certain there are more knowledgeable mechanics on this board that can clear it up if you can get more details about the scenario.

Good luck. Again, it sucks to have a car out of commission.

***edit***

I just saw you're in Temecula, I know you guys have been having hot weather down there, I'm from North County San Diego and used to frequent Butterfield Country frequently. I'm sure the extreme heat wave down there only exacerbated any issue that already existed.

One way to check for head gasket failure is to open the degas bottle (with the engine cold) , fill with water and start the engine. If water spurts out, then that confirms it. It just so happened that the ac was working well and it added more heat from the condenser to the radiator thus the engine overheated.

Thanks to all for the replies, I greatly appreciate it.

Getting the facts...I am going to call the second shop today and see what they say as I do not have the facts and it is not making a lot of sense to me as my daughter tells me "car is drive-able but it is just a matter of time before the engine blows", "he didn't want to do all of the pressure tests and risk further damage" ??? - It is just a head gasket for goodness sakes supposedly.

I see on the invoice where it says "replace engine assembly" so maybe the block is cracked. I dunno but will have more information once I call them.

I do not see how one time overheating it could cause this much damage. I understand it is a beast of a car. Maybe it had been overheating some and never noticed, or maybe the stress of the A/C fix pushed it over the edge as you guys are saying.

I had an AudiS4 once, the gauge never showed hot always right in the middle. Started misfiring so I took it in. Turns out the heads were warped due to overheating. I said WHAT? it never showed on the gauge. Not sure if something like this happened or not.

It is hard to get the facts from my kid, as you can imagine it is a very sensitive topic. I recommend shop, "car blows up" now her husband and three kids have no vehicle. Of course it doesn't help their other car is gone but that is another story. Having one car for the three kids and sharing for work has been challenging for them. So no AC for the past several weeks, he works 13 days straight to get it fixed, it gets fixed and then soon after blows up and now no car. Quite the situation

Let me see what i can find out.

Okay called the shop, basically the threw a smog sniffer on there and the hydro carbons level is 2709 PPM and the limit is 12. So the assessment is head gasket and possibly cracked heads

This shop(which is more of a smog shop!) says they will not replace the head gasket on a car with "this many miles" because what they see after is the lower end goes out shortly after.

WTX????? This sounds absurd, never heard such a claim. So they quoted the $4,200 for engine replacement with a used engine.

I read crap like the sheet the ”shop” is giving you and my blood boils....

All that reading is telling you is the combustion is very dirty - doesn't tell you why.
This link will give more info:
What causes high HC. What causes high Hydrocarbon - SmogTips.com. Failed HC Emissions. Why did my car fail the emission test for high HC emissions. What is HC. My vehicle failed the emission test for high Hydrocarbons. Why my car produced high HC. Hi

Failed head gaskets usually show up as any of the following: a coolant and oil mix, loosing coolant into the engine, combustion gasses leaking into the cooling system. All of which are tested to confirm the failure. Sometimes the cause is obvious.

Gauges will not always show an overheating engine - the sensor measures liquid temperature, not steam temperature. If the sensor is uncovered do to a loss of coolant steam replaces the liquid, and your toast.

So is the engine oil milk chocolate in color?
Is the coolant surge tank puking coolant or have small bubbles in it while the engine is running?
Are you loosing coolant?
Has the cooling system been bled? They can get air trapped in there.
Does the fan clutch work as it should?

Didn't want to do pressure tests - those are "want to be mechanics". The pressure caps run from 16 to 21 psi if I remember correctly. If you think you are going to do damage at 21 psi then why hasn't the entire system grenaded? Some of the diesel systems I've worked on have been tested at 30 psi without issue. I would expect the rad tanks to leak before anything with higher pressure.

Thanks Stamp glad you chimed in this is very good information.

It's a smog shop! that does oil changes and IMO engine work.."on the side"!
I am NO expert but have never heard of a diagnosis done by Smog

Coolant is going somewhere or who knows if it is or not. It was low on coolant thus causing the overheat, maybe the cap is bad and has been steaming out as you say.
Now it has been driven only short distance so no telling if coolant is leaking as it overheats after a few miles

Oil is not Milky
Coolant level is normal
Reservoir bubbles a bit when car is started for a short time and then stops
Coolant level in reservoir is increasing above the line and goes higher the longer the car runs
After it ran and cooled off the coolant in the reservoir is now below the line a tad

Radiator cap, bleed system, fan clutch...all are possible and much more probable then head gasket

What are they calling "coolant"? What comprises the mixture?

What is the ambient temp when it overheats? (Want to rule out Death Valley type summer heat)

What color is the coolant and is there any crap in the surge tank?

Do you or they have access to a temp gun?

Is her husband able to tell when a clutch fan operates correctly?

I would have them start gathering the facts and present them here to form a consensus from members that chime in..