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-   -   Not ANOTHER Engine Noise Thread (http://www.expeditionforum.com/f44/not-another-engine-noise-thread-22721/)

Notrega 02-02-2014 12:57 PM

UPDATE #2 IN OP - Not ANOTHER Engine Noise Thread
 
Cross posted from the 2nd Gen sub-forum... :hmm:

OK - I have only had my 2005 Expedition a few weeks and after reading on this forum either my Ford has developed sympathetic conditions from all your vehicles, I have lost my mind and imagining things, or my truck is sick...

When I got it there was no engine noise. It was louder, of course, than my 4.6 in my Explorer but no knocks, ticks, etc...

Now there is a tick and a rough 'jumpy' idle that you can feel in the driver's seat.

The tick started a week or so ago...

The rough idle started when the temperature dropped below freezing this past week. My idle is between 500 and 600 and there is no discernible change in RPM or engine noise but driver and passenger can feel jumpy idle. I get stutter/hesitation with low acceleration but it goes away if I give it moderate/heavy acceleration.

I read through the Rough Idle Thread but when I checked, what I hoped was the right line there was no change in the idle and no vacuum felt.

No check engine light or any other indicators showing...

And of course here is a vid from the front of the engine, both sides, both wheel wells, and exhaust.

I have a OBD scanner coming from Amazon, it should be here next week.

What the heck? I can't tell my wife I need to drop $$$ into this thing...

2005 Expedition Engine Noise - YouTube

UPDATE
Consistent code for misfire on #6 - swapping coils doesn't move the code.
Worried about breaking the plug without having the tool. Posted to local forum and guy comes out and confirms #6 misfire and gets the plug pulled.
It was a 5/8" champion plug that was extremely loose...
Popped new motorcraft plug in and runs great.
Now I have to check/change the other 7
Guy listens with stethoscope and says that the passenger timing chain is making the majority of the noise and that cam phasers MAY be part of the issue the timing chains need replacing.
$200 for kit and $100 for all the gaskets and $500 for his labor....
Says I can still drive it and just to be aware of any changes in power, oil pressure, etc... that would indicate timing chain jumped teeth...

Update #2
Timing chain was replaced as well as all the remaining plugs and all gaskets and seals too... Guy inspected the phasers and said they were fine and did not need to be replaced. The engine is still noisy but nothing like before. He said that it was normal engine noise.

bedrck46 02-02-2014 01:07 PM

almost sounds like a exhaust leak, or could be a bad bearing on a pulley Try removing the serpentine belt and check all pulleys water pump or even run the engine with the belt removed to see if noise is still present by hand you know if you find a bad one. Just my opinion. If you do run the engine with the belt removed DO NOT run it very long

Notrega 02-02-2014 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedrck46 (Post 183678)
almost sounds like a exhaust leak, or could be a bad bearing on a pulley Try removing the serpentine belt and check all pulleys water pump or even run the engine with the belt removed to see if noise is still present by hand you know if you find a bad one. Just my opinion. If you do run the engine with the belt removed DO NOT run it very long

Would any of that also cause a rough idle?

I'm no wrench turner... Is pulling the belt and getting it back on difficult?

splintrcel 02-02-2014 01:48 PM

Ford engines are going to tick. It doesnt mean any thing bad is happening, its just what they do. Its usually caused by an exhaust leak especially in or around the exhaust manifold. If you really want it to be quiet i used a product called Hyper lube. It goes in your oil and supposedly makes your oil run smoother through the engine but at the least it just dampens the noise your engine will make. If you tried to track every noise your truck made it would drive you to insanity due to the sheer amount of systems that all run in harmony to make your expedition work. If isnt making grinding noises, losing fluid, our running like garbage, your truck is most likely fine.

bedrck46 02-02-2014 01:57 PM

pulling the belt isn't all that difficult and there should be a diagram on the front of the engine/radiator shroud. But if your unsure of your ability I would get some help from a friend that knows what to do. First check and see if you have an exhaust leak. I have found that if you take your hand and place it around the exhaust manifolds you will feel a leak ONLY DO THIS on a cold engine when first started as it will get hot fast. Or take a bottle of baby powder and spray around the manifold and if you have a leak you will know wear eye protection when doing this

Notrega 02-02-2014 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splintrcel (Post 183684)
Ford engines are going to tick. It doesnt mean any thing bad is happening, its just what they do. Its usually caused by an exhaust leak especially in or around the exhaust manifold. If you really want it to be quiet i used a product called Hyper lube. It goes in your oil and supposedly makes your oil run smoother through the engine but at the least it just dampens the noise your engine will make. If you tried to track every noise your truck made it would drive you to insanity due to the sheer amount of systems that all run in harmony to make your expedition work. If isnt making grinding noises, losing fluid, our running like garbage, your truck is most likely fine.

Thanks - not too worried about a minor exhaust leak, but I am unsure what constitutes normal engine noise for this truck. I have read they are noisy and I am ok with that, especially at 142k miles.

My main concern is the jumpy/rough idle...

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedrck46 (Post 183687)
pulling the belt isn't all that difficult and there should be a diagram on the front of the engine/radiator shroud. But if your unsure of your ability I would get some help from a friend that knows what to do. First check and see if you have an exhaust leak. I have found that if you take your hand and place it around the exhaust manifolds you will feel a leak ONLY DO THIS on a cold engine when first started as it will get hot fast. Or take a bottle of baby powder and spray around the manifold and if you have a leak you will know wear eye protection when doing this

I will try the baby powder, but I am not confident in being able to mess with the belt and don't want to get in too deep.

Thanks!

Any idea on rough idle?

I went out and looked at the pvc vacuum again and noticed that the air induction was disconnected and was just barely connected. See image below - I put it back together and it seems to be better as far as the idle goes, but I haven't driven it yet...

http://i.imgur.com/et0LV8Z.png

FordandPolaris 02-03-2014 10:01 AM


Sounds a lot like cam phasers to me...

And those will cause problems. That is an issue unique to the 3v 5.4's which you probably do have. Fortunately there is a lot of info out there in that issue, but I still don't think its a cheap fix.

Notrega 02-03-2014 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FordandPolaris (Post 183753)
FORD 5.4 with cam phaser issue - YouTube

Sounds a lot like cam phasers to me...

And those will cause problems. That is an issue unique to the 3v 5.4's which you probably do have. Fortunately there is a lot of info out there in that issue, but I still don't think its a cheap fix.

Is it is the cam phasers is this something that I need to stop driving and get it in a shop or is it something that I can drive with? Anything I can do to help it before repairs are required? What could happen if it is ignored?

FordandPolaris 02-03-2014 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notrega (Post 183777)
Is it is the cam phasers is this something that I need to stop driving and get it in a shop or is it something that I can drive with? Anything I can do to help it before repairs are required? What could happen if it is ignored?

I am not 100% sure. I have read opinions on both ends of the spectrum. Some bring it in and have the shop repair it, only to have the motor begin making the same noise again a few days later. Others just let it go until something catastrophic happens. If you google "cam phasers 5.4" you will see all sorts of threads on the issue. Most of them are pertaining to the F-150, but the Expedition has the same basic elements. I think worst case if you just let it go is that they fail completely and lock the motor.

Does it happen all the time, or only after then engine is warmed up? I have also read that if it is indeed the phasers, it usually does not appear until the engine is at operating temp.

Notrega 02-03-2014 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FordandPolaris (Post 183803)
I am not 100% sure. I have read opinions on both ends of the spectrum. Some bring it in and have the shop repair it, only to have the motor begin making the same noise again a few days later. Others just let it go until something catastrophic happens. If you google "cam phasers 5.4" you will see all sorts of threads on the issue. Most of them are pertaining to the F-150, but the Expedition has the same basic elements. I think worst case if you just let it go is that they fail completely and lock the motor.

Does it happen all the time, or only after then engine is warmed up? I have also read that if it is indeed the phasers, it usually does not appear until the engine is at operating temp.

All the time, the video was shot with a cold engine.


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