2003 Exp EB key did not turn off car

[razrback]

Your supposed to say, "patience young (old in my case) grasshopper, gotta let wax on, wax off lead you to source"

More questions Master -
when you say "module" is that the Bus?
I know what PCM stands for but have no idea how or where it feeds into the CJB.

Guess we'll worry about the PCM when we eliminate everything else huh?


Can you give me any idea what the heck this relay looks like?

 

[stamp11127]

The pcm was just a comparison. Modules are black boxes that perform various levels of processing. They can be very simple to complicated - stupid to intelligent. A bus is a strip of metal that circuits connect to. You can have positive bus and negative bus. They are physically the same, just the polarity is different.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://i.ebayimg.com/images/a/(KGrHqVHJB8E8fQMNzyBBPNuRRVZ1!~~/s-l300.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Way-Blade-Fuse-Box-Positive-Bus-in-12v-LED-WARNING-Kit-Car-Boat-Marine-Trike-/180817893827&docid=xI4u1n28Iq20SM&tbnid=5DLTz_O9K_LusM:&vet=10ahUKEwjG2MnjwNDVAhVIrVQKHS-DB2c4ZBAzCAUoAzAD..i&w=300&h=300&bih=613&biw=1120&q=positive bus&ved=0ahUKEwjG2MnjwNDVAhVIrVQKHS-DB2c4ZBAzCAUoAzAD&iact=mrc&uact=8

The center strip is the bus, you can see the single post at the bottom where power would come in.
The spade connectors on each side is the output for each circuit on that bus.


This is a basic bus:
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...NDVAhWrrlQKHchzBz8QMwhRKCAwIA&iact=mrc&uact=8


Look at 13-18 for the harness that has C270j. You will see four dashed boxes that connect to splice S319. Each one of the boxes is a module - except for the mirror and rear blend door.

 

[razrback]

Thank you.

Well I finally got to the damn thing, and it wasn't the problem. I unplugged the rear view mirror, no change. Haven't pulled the fuses yet, but will. Not looking forward to the rear blend actuator, about as fun to get to as that damn relay.

Found a new problem tonight, the turn signals are hot without key or F18.

My enthusiasm is fading fast, does it normally take this long to find the problem? Based on your years of experience, what do you think has happened to cause all of this?

Maybe i need to haul to your school and let you guys use it for a class project to get it repaired.

 

[stamp11127]

By getting to it you mean the flasher relay? Isn't it in a wonderful spot? And the turn signals or the hazards work with the ignition off?

I've spent days trying to locate a problem and ended up pulling the majority of the interior out. Don't give up, you are closer to finding the cause compared to when you started. You now know what circuit is causing the issue, you just don't where it is.

Usual culprit has been two wires have rubbed together making a connection or a switch has failed internally resulting in two circuits connected together. This is one of the most labor intensive parts of troubleshooting.

Do you have soldering tools & skills?

 

[razrback]

Lots of topics here, I'll separate by paragraphs.

I won't give up, just when i get tired, my woe-is-me attitude kicks in. Stamp, without you I don't know what I would have done. I talk about you all the time to my friends and family.

Yes, that fuse relay was a beast. i ended up taking the knee guard??? off which helped some, but not a whole lot. I have arthiritis in my thumbs and I wasnt able to remove the plastic cover to get to the relay. So i removed the unit, got one screw out, but the one on the left, i could not. So I broke that side off. I know, I know, but i still have one side to screw in and i'll tie wrap the other side.

BTW, when i unplugged the relay and put F18 back in, the dash lights stayed off (yeah). However when i tried to start it, it would crank but not start. Almost like the fuel pump was not engaging.

BTW, remember when we had the earlier problem and the car would not crank? Well, if F18 is in CJB, the car will not attempt to crank either. Pull F18 and it cranks right up and turns off. If i put F18 in after cranking, of course, it doesn't turn off. Pull F18, and it turns off.

BTW - yes turn signals are hot with key out, F18 out. Stumbled upon this last night while working on the relay.

 

[stamp11127]

How are your soldering skills?

This is one of those needle in the haystack problems that you will probably chase the entire cabin harness. There may be a few "red neck bandaids" that would allow the use of the Expy & not having to pull the fuse each time. But they are dependent and your soldering skills.

Getting a little sleep on this problem gave me an idea.
It would help to know if a module is at fault or if the harness is at fault.

Easy way to check if it is a problem with the harness...
Ignition off, key out
Pull F1. 18 and insert a pin into c270j pin 3 while still connected to cjb
You should see 12+ volts now
Pull each fuse one by one and replace before moving to the next one
You are looking for the voltage to drop to zero as you remove a fuse

This will tell you if another circuit is powering the bus. I'm expecting the main headlight or mfs to be the culprit. Just have to verify it.

 

[razrback]

Soldering skills are usable, probably not circuit board quality, even though i tried!

Funny story - i bought a ford repair cd off eBay several years ago so i could work on the car. I had no idea until this week that it had all the electrical diagrams included. Not that i could have read them before this week. So I've printing those suckers off this morning. Gonna make a binder.

I'll go do the tests you mention above. This is going to be the longest thread ever!

 

[razrback]

I know this is a dumb question, but C270J doesn't have PIN numbers. How do i read, do the numbers do down and back up or across?


Disregard, I went back to my cd and found what i needed. However, pin 3 is not used. Do I still try to use.

F1.18 and key out - pin in blank slot 3 of C270J, C270J plugged in CJB - no volts
All the above - pin 2 (wh/lb) hot

 

[stamp11127]

The only dumb question is the one that is asked multiple times.....

On the DVD there is a section under wiring diagrams that will show the connector layout. You only need to know the connector ID.

 

[Bedrck47]

pin layout