Brake Upgrades

[Journey]

Hello everyone,

I've read the few 'brake upgrade' threads I could find on here, but I still want to run a few things by you guys.

My front rotors (OEM) are as smooth and shiny as a mirror, and if I remember correctly, the mechanic told me to get new ones last time I got new pads (last year) but I didn't get new rotors because of $$$. So now I'm getting a squeak, small vibration, etc.

I would rather put fresh ones on instead of turning them down, so my plan is to get the Powerstop Z36 Severe-Duty Truck and Tow rotor/pad kit for all four wheels (drilled/slotted rotors, pads, and hardware kit) Currently I do not tow anything, but it could be possible in the future and I want this whole set to have a long-lasting life.

Now, I was thinking of upgrading my calipers too (there's nothing wrong with them as far as I know, no leaks). Is that a waste of $$$/time or good investment? My buddies at work said calipers last forever - but this boat's got 190,000 miles with some rust on the underside (lived in CA it's whole life), and honestly I have no idea what the condition of them look like anyways. I'm going to have to take this project to a mechanic and have them do it, I'm not up for it.

And...in one of the forums someone suggested putting in SS hoses.......which I'll probably do, why not?

Any feedback would be great! Thank you!

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Journey, welcome to the forum.

I did front calipers, rotors and pads on the front and rear rotors and pads on the rear on my 05 last summer. Today's rotors really aren't designed to be turned there just isn't that much material on them and they are a wear item. Typically I go two sets of pads to one set of rotors. I might be able to eek out another set of pads but as the rotors wear they get thinner and as the pads wear, they get thinner and that forces the caliper pistons to move further out, which puts stress on the pistons. You don't say what year your truck is but my personal opinion is that drilled/slotted rotors are for sports cars. I always use standard smooth vented rotors up front and solids in the back. You shouldn't have any trouble stopping your truck even if the brakes look small they work. I would get OEM quality as a minimum standard or heavy duty pads and rotors if the price difference doesn't hurt you.

Stainless steel braided hoses will help you over the long haul but really aren't necessary. OEM hoses easily go 150K miles. Change them whenever you change calipers is a good rule of thumb. Over time the insides can collapse which can give the appearance of a stuck caliper. This happens because some mechanics don't tie up the calipers and just let them hang from the hoses when changing pads and rotors or just pads, which weakens or collapses the inner hose. So change them when they start to get hard or when you replace calipers. Just a good rule of thumb.

 

[Journey]

Hey Andy thanks for the good info.

My powersport rotors came in early yesterday and I was a little disappointed pulling them out of the box. I work in a machine shop on mill/lathe/coiling machine and the quality of them just didn't feel good in my hand.... Plus, there was a slight nic on one that rusted over where the pads will squeeze and makes me think something probably happened to it. I took it to a service tech guy at Pep Boys last night and he said to return it.

So your right about the slotted/drilled - I'm going to go with Motorcraft rotors however; the ones on rockauto.com are just solids, if I can't find vented then that's what I'll get with their heavy duty pads. Which brand of rotors and calipers did you use?

My expy is a '97 and I just hit 190,000 miles a few days ago and I don't think the rotors have ever been replaced or turned (is that even possible) and the calipers are surely original. Because I've never done this before, maybe I'll do calipers and hoses next pad change after I get more comfortable down in there.

Question: Do you bleed the calipers when you put the pads in? The guy at Pep Boys said I didn't have to, but fluid will probably spill all over, and I know that fluid got replaced not too long ago, so it's probably full. I guess I'll just have to see how it goes. (Bleeding the calipers shouldn't allow any air inside the line anyways, right?) I bought extra fluid just in case, and if I get a soft pedal before pulling out the driveway then I'll know I did something wrong :-0

Thanks.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Hey Andy thanks for the good info.

My powersport rotors came in early yesterday and I was a little disappointed pulling them out of the box. I work in a machine shop on mill/lathe/coiling machine and the quality of them just didn't feel good in my hand.... Plus, there was a slight nic on one that rusted over where the pads will squeeze and makes me think something probably happened to it. I took it to a service tech guy at Pep Boys last night and he said to return it.

So your right about the slotted/drilled - I'm going to go with Motorcraft rotors however; the ones on rockauto.com are just solids, if I can't find vented then that's what I'll get with their heavy duty pads. Which brand of rotors and calipers did you use?

My expy is a '97 and I just hit 190,000 miles a few days ago and I don't think the rotors have ever been replaced or turned (is that even possible) and the calipers are surely original. Because I've never done this before, maybe I'll do calipers and hoses next pad change after I get more comfortable down in there.

Question: Do you bleed the calipers when you put the pads in? The guy at Pep Boys said I didn't have to, but fluid will probably spill all over, and I know that fluid got replaced not too long ago, so it's probably full. I guess I'll just have to see how it goes. (Bleeding the calipers shouldn't allow any air inside the line anyways, right?) I bought extra fluid just in case, and if I get a soft pedal before pulling out the driveway then I'll know I did something wrong :-0

Thanks.

I've done tons of brake jobs on my other cars but I didn't work on the Expedition mainly because I don't have a flat surface to work on and I'm old and fat and not as comfortable working bent over any more and my garage is my shop and there is no room to get the vehicles inside so I had my buddy in PA who has an auto repair business do the work for me. I just specified that I wanted Premium quality parts he bought them from AutoZone and the rotors had the e-coating on them that which is supposed to keep the rest of the rotor from rusting - of course the wear surface gets polished when they embed the pads to the rotors and the e-coating is worn off by the friction.

Usually the front rotors are vented. They have two sides joined together by internal ribs. They may be a one piece casting with the ribs built in I'm not sure exactly how the machine them. Typically the front brakes handle about 60% of the load so they want to cool them off. The rears are generally solid

I don't know how long you have owned your 97 but my guess is the rotors have been changed at least once if not twice, unless it is all highway mileage or you only drive in rural areas. A lot if it depends on how heavy your foot is when you brake.

As far as bleeding the brakes when you change pads. Generally as long as you haven't added any brake fluid when you push the pistons back in the fluid will rise back up in the master cylinder. It is always a good idea to put a rage over it to keep it from squirting out and getting on the pain. Brake fluid will eat paint. If your brake fluid is dark, it is time to change it. It is hydroscopic so it will absorb water and the breaks down the fluid and can cause problems with the calipers themselves. Plus it can cause you a loss of braking efficiency when the fluid gets hot because the water and change to steam and steam is compressible unlike brake fluid.

Depending on the Dot number of the brake fluid it can be a light yellowish color or a bluish gray color - I could be wrong about the colors because I am a little color blind. But regardless you should be able to see through the fluid it should not be dark or cloudy.

 

[autoarcheologist]

If you are thinking about towing you definitely want to bleed out the old fluid. One because it absorbs water, which will corrode the calipers. And two because the water lowers the boiling point of the fluid, making them more likely to fade.

Replacing the calipers probably isn't a bad idea on a 20 year old vehicle. Same thing with the rubber hose. Might as well do it all at once if the lines are open.

If those pads are semi-metallic they will eat rotors faster, but will stop great cold or hot.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

 

[autoarcheologist]

I forgot to mention I used Centric heavy duty semi-metallic pads and oem rotors on our last tow rig with fresh fluid. We towed a 6000 lb trailer through the Rockies in August with no fade. A good OEM setup with good pads will work fine. Cooling ducts would be a cheap upgrade if you get serious about towing.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

 

[jeff kushner]

One of the best upgrades that you can do to a new car/truck today is the ceramic pads. I began using them years ago on my little 2-seater just to avoid the brake pad dust that used to discolor my front wheels but I found the braking ability of the ceramics to be much better than the stock semi's, even in the wet. JMO of course

jeff

 

[Journey]

Hey thanks for all your replies guys -

I just installed the two front rotors/pads today (so I did Motorcraft rotors from the dealership and then the OEM pads (genuine Ford maybe) I don't know if they are ceramic or semi-metallic... fordparts.com does not give any detailed information like that however; it's already done.

Everything went well (the first rotor/caliper was a bit challenging only because I've never done this before) BUTTTTT.....on the second caliper, I pushed back one of the pistons in a little too far (one part of the rubber seal got tucked in there under the piston). So I pushed the brake pedal down and the other piston moved out (these are the dual piston calipers) but the other one was still in there....So I decided to put it all together and take it for a drive and hope that it will pop back out....

Test drive went well - did multiple hard stops from 40mph and 80mph, alignment of the stop was straight and the pedal pressure is hard enough. My initial concern was about the master cylinder fluid - it was to the max line to begin with and I never took any out before I began, when I finished this project it was leaking a bit out of the cap, and it stayed that way after the test drive and I wasn't sure if it was because the piston is stuck inside the cylinder, or because I put new pads and rotors, giving the pistons less room to travel due to the new thickness - I think this may be the case (I hope), so I'll take some out of the cylinder and hope that the leaked stuff isn't going to ruin engine components....I'm also not looking forward to jacking this beast up again to check that piston.....

So yeah! I think this mission went pretty successfully....alot of my rubber bushings on suspension components are dried and cracked.....looking foward to another project here...

Thanks guys

 

[Journey]

Hey thanks for all your replies guys -

I just installed the two front rotors/pads today (so I did Motorcraft rotors from the dealership and then the OEM pads (genuine Ford maybe) I don't know if they are ceramic or semi-metallic... fordparts.com does not give any detailed information like that however; it's already done.

Everything went well (the first rotor/caliper was a bit challenging only because I've never done this before) BUTTTTT.....on the second caliper, I pushed back one of the pistons in a little too far (one part of the rubber seal got tucked in there under the piston). So I pushed the brake pedal down and the other piston moved out (these are the dual piston calipers) but the other one was still in there....So I decided to put it all together and take it for a drive and hope that it will pop back out....

Test drive went well - did multiple hard stops from 40mph and 80mph, alignment of the stop was straight and the pedal pressure is hard enough. My initial concern was about the master cylinder fluid - it was to the max line to begin with and I never took any out before I began, when I finished this project it was leaking a bit out of the cap, and it stayed that way after the test drive and I wasn't sure if it was because the piston is stuck inside the cylinder, or because I put new pads and rotors, giving the pistons less room to travel due to the new thickness - I think this may be the case (I hope), so I'll take some out of the cylinder and hope that the leaked stuff isn't going to ruin engine components....I'm also not looking forward to jacking this beast up again to check that piston.....

So yeah! I think this mission went pretty successfully....alot of my rubber bushings on suspension components are dried and cracked.....looking foward to another project here...

Thanks guys

 

[Journey]

Hey thanks for all your replies guys -

I just installed the two front rotors/pads today (so I did Motorcraft rotors from the dealership and then the OEM pads (genuine Ford maybe) I don't know if they are ceramic or semi-metallic... fordparts.com does not give any detailed information like that however; it's already done.

Everything went well (the first rotor/caliper was a bit challenging only because I've never done this before) BUTTTTT.....on the second caliper, I pushed back one of the pistons in a little too far (one part of the rubber seal got tucked in there under the piston). So I pushed the brake pedal down and the other piston moved out (these are the dual piston calipers) but the other one was still in there....So I decided to put it all together and take it for a drive and hope that it will pop back out....

Test drive went well - did multiple hard stops from 40mph and 80mph, alignment of the stop was straight and the pedal pressure is hard enough. My initial concern was about the master cylinder fluid - it was to the max line to begin with and I never took any out before I began, when I finished this project it was leaking a bit out of the cap, and it stayed that way after the test drive and I wasn't sure if it was because the piston is stuck inside the cylinder, or because I put new pads and rotors, giving the pistons less room to travel due to the new thickness - I think this may be the case (I hope), so I'll take some out of the cylinder and hope that the leaked stuff isn't going to ruin engine components....I'm also not looking forward to jacking this beast up again to check that piston.....

So yeah! I think this mission went pretty successfully....alot of my rubber bushings on suspension components are dried and cracked.....looking foward to another project here...

Thanks guys