Stalling at low speed/idle

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I have an '05 Expy with 145K miles, and a weird problem.

Wife called me frantic the other day; she picked up our kids at school and while parked with engine idling, it just stalled and died. 5 minutes later, she tried it again and it started up no problem, so went to drive to the store. Engine proceeded to stall out another 5 times, any time she slowed down due to traffic, stop sign, etc. Barely made it to a parking lot. I met her there 10 minutes later, it started right up for me, and I drove it home in 15 minutes, no problem at all. Parked it in driveway, let run for a minute, and no problem. Shrug it off.

Next day I thought maybe the throttle body had a bad set point, so I disconnected the battery for 20 minutes, reconnected and turned it on to re-learn set points... Let engine idle in Park, and 5 minutes later... Dead! Couldn't get it to turn over.

Like I said, weird. Recent factors: I removed the throttle body about 4 months ago and scrubbed it pretty clean, because we were getting a "check throttle body" message and loosing power intermittently. Also have recently had a P0430 code coming on pretty often, I think the catalytic converter may be on it's last leg. In the past we've had coils that have died out, and I've replaced them as needed, but haven't had a code for a coil in quite a while.

Thoughts?? I don't really know where to start with this one. May remove the whole air box and take a look at the throttle body again, just to make sure it's not suddenly gunked up again. After that, may try to remove/clean the downstream O2 sensors on the catalytics? I don't really know anything about checking fuel pressure, fuel pump, etc.

Oh, and our other vehicle needs about $1,200 to pass inspection too, so that's great.

Help!
 

1955moose

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Well here we go again! Diagnostic in this order. #1 check fuel pump drivers module near fuel tank.#2 diagnostic test of dtc's digital trouble codes. Catalytic converters will cause severe power loss, but usually won't cause stalling unless it was totally clogged, and you wouldn't get above 30mph. Throttle body failures are common on later models, but not yours. Lastly run a fuel pressure test, to be sure your pump, filter and line up to injectors are sound. Report back with your findings.

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Thanks for the quick reply - for #1 I did the check where my wife turned the battery on/off and I listened by the fuel tank, heard a "click" sound kind of like the door locks each time. I'm thinking that's the fuel pump doing it's thing. Will look further into whether there's a better way to check it, and move on down the list.

For #2 what are DTC's? I'm not getting any codes or "check engine" lights now; it just starts up as normal, then after a few minutes dies and won't start again unless it sits for a while.

Well here we go again! Diagnostic in this order. #1 check fuel pump drivers module near fuel tank.#2 diagnostic test of dtc's digital trouble codes. Catalytic converters will cause severe power loss, but usually won't cause stalling unless it was totally clogged, and you wouldn't get above 30mph. Throttle body failures are common on later models, but not yours. Lastly run a fuel pressure test, to be sure your pump, filter and line up to injectors are sound. Report back with your findings.

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1955moose

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Dtc stands for digital trouble codes, that's why I printed it right after dtc. Just because you don't have a check engine light on doesnt mean you don't have a stored code. You or a shop need to plug into scanner port, and check. I'd still crawl under vehicle and check out that fuel pump module. They get all rusty and crusty, and cause all kinds of driveability issues. Your fuel pump can be kicking on but not pumping enough. Anything under 30 psi can cause issues. Let us know what you find. Happy wife, means happy life! You want to get this fixed!

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Okay, took your advice and hooked up my OBD code reader, and sure enough it gave me a P0113 code, which is an Intake Air Temperature Sensor error.

1 I’m having a helluva time finding out where the Intake Air Temp sensor actually is, so I can check it’s connections and see if there’s a short, etc.

2 I’d like to check the fuel pressure too, to verify if the pump is operational but can’t find a fuel pressure valve on the fuel rail in the engine compartment to hook up a pressure sensor.

3 Havne’t tried to crawl underneath yet and get a look at the fuel pump module, it got dark before I had the chance. But from what I’ve read it’s actually in the fuel tank and I don’t know if I’ll be able to get a look at it anyway?

I did take off the air box just to get a look at the throttle, and from what I can tell nothing looks broken or coated in greasy blackness. I sprayed the crap out of it with intake cleaner just in case. I did take a look at the fuel pump fuse, and that’s in good shape too. Haven’t taken the plunge to remove the whole fuse box so I can look at the relay, and am hoping I don’t have to... Really hope this P0113 code points to another problem that’s easily fixable.

If anybody can point me in the right direction for any of the above, or even post a pic from your own truck, that’d be much appreciated!
 
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Well, I think I'm beat and have to give up. The '05 doesn't have a schrader valve on the fuel rail, so there's no way for me to test fuel pressure to confirm/eliminate that as a symptom. Without that, I could just throw parts at it - fuel pump, fuel pump control module, fuel pump relay, etc - all potentially without actually solving the problem. Could be the ERG, could be... anything. Sucks. Why Ford eliminated the schrader valve from the fuel rail, I'll never know. Sucks.

I know it does have spark and air flow, because it does turn over - only if it sits overnight, and only runs for a minute or two, then dies out. This is seriously making my head spin.

So I guess I'll try to get it to my shop, either tow it or maybe I can get a good enough run where I can avoid letting the RPM's dip below 1000. He can hook it up to his computer and get some real-time data, read fuel pressure, etc. I'll report back, in case anyone's interested.

Other symptoms that I didn't include, may be totally unrelated: In the past two months, fuel efficiency has gotten really low, from 12MPG to 8 or 9 MPG. Had been getting a pretty frequent P0430 code, which I think is the catalytic converter, but that hasn't kicked on in a while. When I took off the air box to look at the throttle, I then got a P0113 code, which is the Intake Air Temp sensor. I checked connections, cleared the code, and it hasn't come back on yet. The rear lift gate is jammed closed, no idea why. Pull the handle, it just won't release. When I had my wife turn on the battery so I could hear the fuel pump kick on, also sounded like the lock on the back lift gate was trying to click. Finally, back wiper blade motor doesn't work, and hasn't since last summer.

All those things don't seem immediately related to my problem with fuel supply to the engine, but maybe it'll job something in someone's brain if you're reading this.
 

Bedrck47

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According to the electrical prints for your 05 the MAF and the Intake Air Temp Sensor are one unit

It will have a connector with 6 wires
 

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I assume you've changed the fuel filter at some point and that part is good?
I ran my fuel filter 7 years once and it was a MESS

Is there any chance its the gas cap? I knew of a vehicle many years ago guy was pulling his hair out and parts were being laundry list replaced .. turned out the vented gas cap was the offender.

Just ideas, low hanging fruit
 

1955moose

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If your expedition doesn't have a Schrader valve, some don't you'd need a gauge that tees into the fuel rail. You have to remove the line coming in to it, up front. Might want to pay shop to do that part, unless you can borrow one. Their a little pricey for the full set ones. Check with Oreilly or auto zone, maybe they rent them. I believe all 2005/06 expeditions have your fuel pump module mounted up near spare tire. As far as your intake air sensor, you can Google the install and diagnostic of wires. With all your issues, you might want to spring for a Ford repair CD. Don't bother with Haynes, or Chilton, their good for lighting the BBQ! The relays are soldered in on 2003 and up I believe. Post what you find! Moose

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