Transmission Noise (RESOLVED) now it leaks bad when hot

[juan214]

I had planned to change my tranny fluid on my truck once I was done with my wife's van repairs. As far as I know it's never been changed. It does leak or loses tranny fluid have to put some in every few weeks. She leaks or burns oil too. I'd like to track down the leaks one at a if possible. Any suggestions?

Anyway haven't use the truck in about two weeks until I needed to go get parts. I have developed a noise loud at start up the quiets down after a bit. I got under it and took the inspection plate off. It's dry in there from what I can tell. From what I could see the first bolt looked tight I tried to move the converter and flywheel forward and backwards to check for movement (none). Inspected for loose parts around the area and cleaned up the area with parts cleaner and wiped it down. Found a heat shield loose on a Catalytic converter (not part of this issue). Started the truck got under it quieted down by the time I got under it. Looked at the flywheel spinning no visual movement. Used my stethoscope everywhere top to bottom, front to back. Noise seems louder at the bellhousing one inch away at the pans it's quieter. No loud top or bottom end noises. I'm assuming it's either the flywheel or the torque converter. Any suggestions to further diagnose this?

Thinking about tightening the nuts down to check torque. Need torque spec for nut to conveter.

Fluid last used to top off Castrol Transmax® MERCON V Certified for use in Ford vehicles that require Mercon or Mercon V.

Correct me where I'm wrong.

1. 4R100 transmission.
   
2. Mercon / Mercon V
3. How many quarts?
4. Flush or Changed?

I took it out for a test ride around the block. Noise goes away when driving and she shifts fine at it's usual points at about 1800 rpm give or take a few hundred.

 

[juan214]

Maybe the pump is shot, any tranny gurus on?

 

[juan214]

Could something be rattling inside the torque converter or the pump?

 

[juan214]

Took the truck to Double A Beep Beep M C O

 

[juan214]

Got the call they asked a bunch of questions about the truck. They said that the Torque Converter bolts were loose. It would be $206 to tighten the bolts with Loctite. An hour diagnostic time (which is a free diagnostic) and an hour to do the work. Guess they still charge their hourly rate. Then he went on to say it would be $1050 to remove the tranny and inspect it for damage. Told them to tighten the bolts and use locktite. Called them back it's all torqued to spec. Waiting on the tech to come back from the road test on the truck. Told him to call me back.

 

[juan214]

I shopped tranny prices all morning including another AAMCO before he called me back with the outcome. Trying to keep them honest. AAMCO gave me their sales pitch for diagnosis but no pricing. Called tranny shop one said $2500 w/ converter, Second $2200 w/ converter, the third offered under $2000 w/ converter and a four day turn around. I was shopping for worse case scenario.

They never called me back after two hours. Called them back ask about my truck. Said the truck is all tightened up and my noise was gone but there is a tick in the tranny (odd). Before I dropped it of I used my stethoscope on it everywhere no ticking then. He started to try and sell me on pulling the tranny and checking it out. I'm very hesitant now.

 

[juan214]

So we continue the conversation. He went from selling labor to pull and inspect for damage to pull and rebuild. Now I got the funds to do a rebuild that's not a problem. Really Now... Noise is gone but you got a tick now I'm not there to check it out for myself. So now how much is the rebuild? It's $1886 to rebuild. Right in line with the lowest price I got. If you converter is ok if not the converter is $375 more. Whoa we just went from $1886 to $2261 he just passed my two lowest quotes not including sales tax or his "hard parts". I said I have to think about it I would call back. He said "Oh by the way we can finance the work. I said I don't need another bill got plenty (who doesn't). Well we can check and see if you qualify. I figure what the hack I would be denied over extend maybe. He took my info and BAM you're approved. Really wow. Ya you got approved for $2500 so we can do this right now and you will not have to worry about it. Payments would be around $50 a week. I said really cant afford that, that's $200 a month (a credit card would be less than that). He double checked the numbers said it would be $39 and change per week. said I would have to think about it. I'll call you back.

I started thinking and still am. I would have said why don't you come down and listen to the truck and decide. I thought about it more he more money than the other quotes and is he going to add more crap to the bill. I call him back said I'm going to wait for that kind of money I could get another truck and she sits for the summer. He said OK.

I go and pick it up, again no check out the tick. My son knew something was up with the way I was acting. I paid the bill $236 they top off the tranny as well. Go outside start the truck no noise no ticking. Ran a couple of errands and stopped at the muffler shop that does all my exhaust work for 20 plus years. Put it up on the lift to remove a heat shield that a tack let go on. They didn't notice anything wrong as they would tell as normal practice. Did notice it takes a little longer to shift now. It averaged about 1800 rpms now it can get up to 2200 2300. Let's see if this continues.

Drive home to put to the inspection plate, bolts, and the plug at the bottom of the trany back on. Go to grab them they were gone look under the truck they put them back on for me. Cool don't have to do that now. Grabbed my stethoscope to check for the ticking. I didn't hear anything different than what I heard before (obviously the other noise is gone). Only problem now there's a good leak now they said they had to top it off so this must be the beginning.

Going to leave it for now so I can finish of the van. Need to replace both front ABS sensors, the rear brake hoses, and maybe the O2 sensors. I'll save the wheel bearings for later or til the go.

 

[juan214]

So I would have saved myself the money if i checked it myself and torqued the nuts myself. Oh well live and learn. Thought process was that the flywheel cracked, converter shot inside, or that the pump was shot inside the tranny. Got no replies here no biggie. Figured the tranny shop was my next best option.

Guess I'm not doing a fluid change on this bad boy. I may use this tranny for a (SNAKE OIL) test. I'll drop a bottle of AT-205 in it hope it seals it if does great. If not or if screws up the tranyy oh well. Knew it had a leak and if not kept up with I would burn the tranny. A true test of this stuff will be posted with results when I do it.

OR

I'll drop it off at the lowest quoted tranny shop and have them diagnose it. Maybe replace the leaky seal(s) that will start at $800 labor for R/R plus parts needed.

 

[juan214]

Found a possible answer for my leak on Expedition Portal:

The 4R100 auto behind the '02 and earlier Super Duties is known to leak out of the front seal (torque converter hub seal) when towing and it is hot. The seal will allow fluid to escape, then when the truck (trans) cools, it will stop leaking. Most of the rebuild kits have an improved seal, or some trans shops will machine a keeper to prevent the seal from "pushing out". If it stops leaking when it cools, and it is the front seal, its not that big of a deal. My buddies Excursion does it, and has done it for years.
Last edited by zack05; 07-18-2011 at 06:08 AM.

 

[juan214]

Oh and they left me a nice 8" scratch on the door. I didn't see til i got home luckily I buffed most of it out by hand.