Multiple misfire after fill up - coincidence?

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Sgt Darkness

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Several years ago I started checking www.toptiergas.com to help me stay away from gas stations that do not meet the same standard as stations that have been ranked within the top tier profile. I was surprised and do not buy gas from a non top tier station. Check out toptiergas.com and take a look.
 

1955moose

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Be glad they don't use those old steel tanks anymore. The dirt and rust was horrible. On top of that, most cars used a much smaller lower pressure filter. Good news was you could buy a car that didn't run, or ran poorly, throw on a new fuel filter, and a set of points, and voila, you had a car for cheap!

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Adieu

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I can't count how many times I wanted to blame my crappy running cars on bad fuel. But I can count how many times I really did have bad fuel: Never.

Bad fuel happens

It's more common with diesel, but happens with gas too... I once got a tank that gave me a whopping 6 mpg highway --- in a rental 4 cylinder ALTIMA. Tanks before and after were in the 30's.

And with a high performance diesel, you soon learn that about HALF the stations in your area peddle crap. Results vary hugely.
 
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Matticus

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IMG_20190323_175150.jpg

This just got interesting. Pulled the valve cover and was at first disappointed that I didn't see anything obviously out of the ordinary. I then started to turn the engine over slowly with a ratchet and voila! One of the intake valve springs on cylinder 1 was broken. The valve doesn't appear to be bent, either. I moves smooth and easy.

However, cylinder 3 valves are just fine (as are all the others on that bank). So, why did the tech get a vacuum on cyl 1 and 3? I'm actually wondering how he didn't see the exact opposite and say there was a lack of compression on cylinder one since the one intake valve couldn't close all the way.

I'm starting to wonder if:
A) the tech miscommunicated what was going on
B) he read the gauge wrong in some way (not sure how) aka, bad diagnostic
C) he was an idiot/dishonest/lazy

I've always had really good experiences with this shop, so I'm going to give them a call on Monday and talk to the tech and try to get an even more in depth answer on what exactly he did and see if what I found sheds more light on the situation.

Good news is, it's possible I'll be able to bring this baby back to life with just a new spring! I really hope that's the case and the valve didn't get hammered to the point where it wont seal correctly.



p.s. PM me if you need some hand modeling work
 

TobyU

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See.. What did I tell you....
When one of these has "negative" compression have not open it's always an intake valve not opening. The reason it still has some compression is because it still sucks some are past the Rings and out of the crankcase and stuff like that because it's moving so quickly. But you get that suck back soon as it goes back down when the valve cannot open to let air in.
Make sure you check the bearing in the roller rocker. Usually when the Springs break and the Rockers clack loudly and stuff there is a bearing damage.
Double check that the lifter lash adjuster is nice and solid also and not collapsed. The one I had that the rocker popped out I saw no visible damage on anything but the rocker was laying there in the top of the head so I went ahead and replaced the rocker and the last gesture just to be safe.

To answer your other questions it's because shops are greedy and most tax are ********.
If you tell a customer just one cylinder has an issue they immediately go to in their mind will can't you just fix that one. And I think it should be cheap but when you tell them they have two blown out destroyed messed up no compression cylinders it's easy to convince them to put a new motor in it or rebuild the old one. Most shops don't rebuild they just replace with reman ones. Most shops would rather put a reman engine in it even put heads on a vehicle but regardless they're still making money.
It really doesn't matter why they gave you such a terrible diagnosis. I could have told you as much as you needed to know it's not running right. Let's put a new engine in it.
This happens hundreds of times if not thousands every day in this country and it sickens me.
People who don't have the ability you or I do or most of the others in this forum to find out for themselves and who don't want to bother to get a second opinion because it's probably not worth any more than the first opinion, junk these vehicles, trade them in for nothing, or dump them cheaply because some jerk wants to make a nice profit on a job he doesn't deserve to get.
I bad-mouth them all the time and somebody occasionally wants to get into it with me. Yes I might overgeneralize but the statistics are way in my favor.
Even if you can find a mechanic who will fix the bare minimum to get you going, which is very very rare.. you will still be paying a lot more to get it done then if you did it yourself or if you had a buddy who knows how come over and do it and then take him and his wife out to dinner.
The sad fact of reality is most of them will not do the bare minimum. The minimum that they consider doing and they will do for repair is more than you or I would do and racks up more for their profit.
So if you replace this one valve spring and put it back together you're out a grand total of between 7 and $15. If you had a buddy or swung by and engine head shop they probably give you one.
Now even if the mechanic would have bothered to do this it would probably be worth at least is 1 hour labor which is 75-110 in most areas.
$100 plus the parts would not be unfair not highway robbery for this and as an owner of a vehicle most would be more than happy to pay $100 even a hundred fifty to get their car back running instead of be being told they need an engine.
 

Trainmaster

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I'm happy for you. That Ford has lots more good miles left.

Check out that rocker arm and give a good look at #3 and its spring and get that sucker back on the road!

I'm with Toby and think the mechanicc's talking out of his a$$. But now you be a good time to check compression on that #3 and #1 yourself.
 

1955moose

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The real good news is all you have to do is borrow a spark plug compression tester, hook compressed air to the hose end and with a small engine spring compressor, pop on new spring and keepers. Use a magnet, and find the old valve keepers, that are floating around in there. Good luck.

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Matticus

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I brought that piston up to tdc and the valve rests on the piston, so I don't think I'll even need to do that much. The compression test kit I bought had 5 different fittings and none of them would fit to do what you described...kind of irritating. But, I could just use the rubber tipped fitting if I need to. What is the thread size for these plugs anyway?
 

1955moose

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14 mm is the size. The reason you need to apply air is to keep valve all the way up, so you can fit valve keepers in. If you let valve drop to hit piston, your down at least a 1/2 inch. Too low to fit the collets in. The only other way is to pull head. You can buy the 14mm hose at Sears or any tool supply. Even order online.

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TobyU

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14 mm is the size. The reason you need to apply air is to keep valve all the way up, so you can fit valve keepers in. If you let valve drop to hit piston, your down at least a 1/2 inch. Too low to fit the collets in. The only other way is to pull head. You can buy the 14mm hose at Sears or any tool supply. Even order online.

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^ this. You can feed some rope into the cyl and gently turn engine by hand until piston pushes rope against valve to hold it closed. If it moves down at all you won't be able to push valve spring in enough to get keepers in as Moose said.
Definitely want to get those keepers out if you didn't find them laying right there.
You were lucky it didn't drop a valve. That would have been head off at minimum if not hole in piston.
 
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