Regular vs Max - Driveability vs Capacity???

JasonH said:

I'm not sure that's true. I'm on at least 3 towing forums, and I frequently see complaints about towing larger trailers with short wheelbase, 1/2 ton based SUVs. The additional wheelbase of the Max is actually around 9" longer, so I don't think the distance between the hitch and rear axle is much longer as compared to the standard length vehicle. The longer wheelbase helps stabilize trailers. The trailer acts as a lever on the rear of the vehicle...the additional wheelbase provides a counter to the forcing acting on the rear.

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You're correct- I thought the extra length was more in the tail end. Anyway, it depends on what you're towing. For me, towing a 25' Airstream the regular should work fine. It've been towing it happily with a 2012 Durango and the Expy should blow that away.

Personally I’ll go with the regular length. I’ve rented both and the max felt a tad long, and I doubt I’ll use the third row very often.

What about 4WD vs 2WD and HD Tow Package?
I think its good to have 4WD & HD Tow …. for multiple reasons

I would avoid a moonroof, trouble trouble trouble!
unless you just plain dig a moon roof, then go for it

To me the best deal for the $$$ is a 30K miles 1.5 year old "off lease"

Whatever you get … don't whine if the paint bubbles … known problem since 1997

Immediately put on Gorilla Lug Nuts … and have Krown Treated if in a rust prone region

Have 4 wheel alignment done by a good shop right away

Run semi synthetic or full and oil change at minimum 6K miles
At minimum --> follow ALL recc service intervals

all points of contention, many opinions --- all GOOD!

I had a 2011 EL and used it for a 3 month cross country camping trip in tents. Warm and cold weather tents, warm and cold weather sleeping bags, warm and cold weather clothing, dog, camera equipment and all sorts of "old guy" stuff. If we saw space in the back, we knew we left something behind. Years later we did a similar trip with a small trailer. The extra space made all the difference Without the EL it would have been a cargo carrier on the roof with the attendant reduction in gas mileage. 2 mpg loss on an 18,000 mile trip is a significant hit.

The standard is ok IF you have the seats down but if you need the 3rd row for people, the cargo area left is EXTREMELY limited.
I can't stand it.
Not even enough room for luggage let alone a tool box and socket set I like to take on all trips.
Unless I used the roof or a roof carrier (which I hate) or put a carrier on the rear hitch (better but can't open hatch on most) I would feel way too limited.
Do they make a hitch carrier that is hinged on one end so you can swing it out and open hatch? Even swinging down would work but seems bad for cargo shifting.

MrSticker said:

What about 4WD vs 2WD and HD Tow Package?
I think its good to have 4WD & HD Tow …. for multiple reasons

I would avoid a moonroof, trouble trouble trouble!
unless you just plain dig a moon roof, then go for it

To me the best deal for the $$$ is a 30K miles 1.5 year old "off lease"

Whatever you get … don't whine if the paint bubbles … known problem since 1997

Immediately put on Gorilla Lug Nuts … and have Krown Treated if in a rust prone region

Have 4 wheel alignment done by a good shop right away

Run semi synthetic or full and oil change at minimum 6K miles
At minimum --> follow ALL recc service intervals

all points of contention, many opinions --- all GOOD!

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HD tow package is only helpful if you regularly tow >6000#.

4WD is necessary in northern climes.

Correct on the mooroof IMO.

I will never buy a used car again. Actual cost of ownership is nearly identical on a yearly basis.

Never had paint bubble, this is my third Expy.

No real rust prone areas on an aluminum body.

I haven't had an alignment done in decades. No problems.

I change the oil more often than recommended.

Paddler said:

HD tow package is only helpful if you regularly tow >6000#.

4WD is necessary in northern climes.

Correct on the mooroof IMO.

I will never buy a used car again. Actual cost of ownership is nearly identical on a yearly basis.

Never had paint bubble, this is my third Expy.

No real rust prone areas on an aluminum body.

I haven't had an alignment done in decades. No problems.

I change the oil more often than recommended.

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I don't see how it is even remotely possible for cost of ownership to be nearly identical.

Now buying a 2 year old vs 4 year old could be as you will get less in a few years when you sell the 2 year older car.

I assume you are also talking about not keeping the cars for 6-10+ years.

If you are buying another one every 3-5 years then buying used will save you big money.

Major reduction on resale price at about 2 years. Not so much the next 2-4.
If you buy 1.5 -2 year old car you will get a higher % of your purchase price when you sell it in 3 years than if you buy a new one and sell it in 3 years.

I don't even consider leases but they some could be better for people who trade cars frequently and keep them nice and don't go over miles.

I prefer to keep my cost of ownership to $25 a week or less.

My last car I had for 6 years and cost of ownership was 11.22 per week.

I keep my cars for a long time. I bought my last Expedition used, a lease back, in January 2010, with 34K miles. I paid ~$28K plus tax, so close to $30K. Sold it for $7500 in May of 2018. So, $22500/100 months, or $225/month in depreciation. But, the previous owner hadn't changed the oil enough, the dipstick had varnish on it, crap from kids under the back seats, etc, etc. I did the math at the time, the cost of ownership to 200,000 miles wouldn't have been much different than if I'd bought a new one. Of course, the numbers get bigger with each passing year, but I think depreciation worked out to about $0.22/mile. If I keep my new one for 12 years/200K miles, and sell it for $10K, I will have paid $48.5K in depreciation, or $336/month, or $0.24/mile. I look at long term cost of ownership, buy new and drive them a long time.

No used cars for this guy, it's not worth it to me to put up with previous owner's crap. If you can keep your cost of ownership to $100/month, more power to you. It's instructional to look at the 5 year cost of ownership from Edmunds, etc.

BTW, what was your last car? By cost of ownership, you're just talking depreciation, right? I probably pay $100/month just for fuel.

I don't put much faith into anything Edmunds says. Yes, we would have to agree on definitions and what costs we are talking about.
I also don't go by mile -because- I might have a car I own 6 years and put 50K on and another I have 6 years and put 12K on. If I paid the same amount for each one would "cost" me over 4x the other BUT I still had both cars there at my disposal every day of the week I just CHOSE not to use one. I still pay the same to have it whether I use it or not. So they both cost me the same per week.

I don't do it normally but it makes sense.
The cost to me is what I paid for the car plus any repairs.
I am trying to compare one car to the next as in a way to say this car is better than that or at least cheaper so oil changes don't count to me as you have to change oil on any car. To get super technical some hold more oil and some need more frequent changes than others but that's being pedantic about it. I am looking for my cost of having one particular make or model of car vs another.
So tires are same. If I buy one with bald tires and have to put them on up front then that goes into my cost because on that particular car I had too (although it shouldn't condemn the whole make because that one had bald tires) but oh well.
I don't count insurance UNLESS we are considering a high insurance rated car vs a typical one. For this comparison on my regular cars they are all in the same general insurance price range.
So basically, insurance, oil changes and air filters, tires, gas, are not included..neither are tolls or parking fees which one could include in cost of ownership vs not owning a car and using public transportation or uber, or e-bike or bike etc (all of which I dislike to despise in some weird order).

The price I pay for the car plus any immediate needed items and all repairs or things that fail or need replaced or repaired during the time I have it.

I always ask people: What is it worth to have a functional adequate car you can hop in a drive anywhere you want any time you want? $5 a week, $10 a week, $20, $25???
Most say easily worth 25 a week.
So I say when you buy that old beater or even decent car (should have seen my last extremely nice one) for about 2600.00---when you have had it for 2 years and not had any big repairs on it....YOU can throw it away and you have gotten more than your money's worth!
Quite holding out for 1500. Sell it for the first even decent cash offer and move on.

So basically depreciation and repair costs.

I have done this with $800 cars for work cars and for my kids, $2500 cars for daily drivers and family cars for nightly dinner trips and vacation/ trips, $5900 near mint Navigator with 117K on it, $8200 Lifted Durango in Texas off Ebay, lifted Ramcharger a few years back at $5700.
I buy old but nice stuff sometimes with high miles but at good to great prices. I get more than my money out of them then I sell them for often 45-70% of what I paid.

I have kept some over 10 years and sold for only 300-400 or to the salvage yard at scrap metal prices(currently about 325) but I got many years out of them.

We all have to rationalize it someway. Lol

I've bought one new vehicle in my life and it was a 4 wheeler. I would have lost a bunch on that one because I wasn't going to keep it many years an a used one at 1/3 the price would do the job just the same....but I traded it to a kid who had an 8 month old SV600 sportbike and wanted something else. He took a killing on the bike and I got the bike, two jackets; two helmets, a riding mower with wheelbarrow, cart, aerator, and roller, and 2200 in cash.
I sold the bike in a week for almost 4K and sold one helmet and jacket and traded other jacket to friend for a leather one and kept the mower for a couple of years then sold it for 400.
I had paid 6300 cash for the 4 wheeler and would have been hard to sell for over 5K since it was used and almost a year old but only 53 miles and 11 hours on it.

So money wise I came out smelling like a rose, but I will never buy another new vehicle.
I almost paid cash for a 2000 ZX-12R at like 12,700 or something but the dealer would come down on price!
You think I'm going to give you sticker when I have cash money guaranteed sale.
Most don't care. They would rather to wait for someone to borrow the money they don't care what rate...and pay full price because they are so happy to get the item!!
This is what's wrong with this country!!! At least one big thing. The list is getting long.

So in 2005 I bought the same color ZX-12R but with all the mods and body kit ad ons. 176.7 rear wheel HP on dyno from 148.8 stock consecutive days....for 4300.
Kept it about a year (didn't like riding it near as much as my last 2 ZX-11s) and sold it for only slightly less than I paid- 3800 I think.
Screw that Kawasaki dealer!! I won, he lost.
I would have plopped down 11,500-11,900 that day.
Things happen for reason and that reason saved me 8K.
4.5 years later is of no significance to me. I am a patient person.
I used to be impatient as a kid- then I grew up.

I had 2 different ZX-11 in those 4.5 years and lots of fun with them.

In about 1976 I bought a 1966 Volvo 122S with 158K miles for $1000. I drove it 100K miles and sold it in 1985 for $500. Depreciation was $4/month. As I've said, I buy new, maintain them properly, and drive them a long time. We ordered a BMW 528i in 1999, picked it up in Germany in October. We paid $40K, it still drives like new, and will be 20 years old this October. Not sure what it's worth now, but our mechanic says the engine is good for 300K miles. It has 149K now, so it looks like it will go another 20 years. If we sold it now for $5K, and it's worth more than that, depreciation would be $1750/year. I like to keep depreciation under $3000/year, so mission accomplished. BTW, BMW has just brought out their new Shift Cam 1250cc engine. I intend to buy a spanking new R1250RS in the Spring. It'll be expensive, but worth it to me.