How to use a CAT scale for RV and truck towing?

Is there a way to shift cargo to the back of the travel trailer to lighten you tongue load? I suspect you probably have already done that. Even at the minimum 770 lbs of tongue weight you only have 630 lbs left of payload capacity which needs to include your hitch weight. I suspect you and the 3 boys average more than 157.5 pounds (not factoring in 50 - 100 lbs for the hitch). You didn't mention the Expy's GVWR, but it is probably a few hundred less than the sum of the axle weight ratings.

flying68 said:

Is there a way to shift cargo to the back of the travel trailer to lighten you tongue load? I suspect you probably have already done that. Even at the minimum 770 lbs of tongue weight you only have 630 lbs left of payload capacity which needs to include your hitch weight. I suspect you and the 3 boys average more than 157.5 pounds (not factoring in 50 - 100 lbs for the hitch). You didn't mention the Expy's GVWR, but it is probably a few hundred less than the sum of the axle weight ratings.

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I'm thinking of giving a go at re-distributing as much as I can of the cargo in the front area on my next trip and swinging by the scale to see how much of a change there was. If I could get closer to 900lbs I would be a whole lot happier. This past week I have been looking hard at the F250 option, but it is very pricey. Would I like to have that class truck for when I tow, sure would. But I may tow my RV 12 times a year tops, and the scenario I set up with me and 3 teenagers/young men happens maybe twice a year if that. Having a truck like that as my daily driver like my Expy is now is not ideal. I'm thinking of doing the re-dist of weight, adding the sumo spring spacer, and upgrading the sway bar and see how it all behaves.

If those mitigation efforts work out well, I may ditch the Super Duty idea and go ahead with my originial plan of upgarding to a Gen 4 Platinum Expy 4x4. I'll gain a little bit of payload, and a little bit of rear axle capacity. But it'd be a whole lot better for me as a daily driver, probably fit the bill 90% of my RV trips, and be whole lot more easy on the mind when I do stress it out than my current 11 yo Expy.

I'm still a bit befuddled on how I got to 1100lb tongue weight to begin with. From the factory stated tongue weight is 760. I've got one group 27 battery and only one of two 30gal propane tanks about 70% full. Nothing crazy in the front compartment. Two power cables, two water hoses, some leveling plastic blocks, set of anderson levelers. A plastic rug, small tool kit. Guess it all adds up quite fast.

Fasttimes said:

I'm still a bit befuddled on how I got to 1100lb tongue weight to begin with. From the factory stated tongue weight is 760. I've got one group 27 battery and only one of two 30gal propane tanks about 70% full. Nothing crazy in the front compartment. Two power cables, two water hoses, some leveling plastic blocks, set of anderson levelers. A plastic rug, small tool kit. Guess it all adds up quite fast.

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Unfortunately, I don't think the manufacturer's numbers are always accurate. If you really want to know the wet tongue weight without going to a truck scale, get a tongue weight scale and take everything out, then weigh the trailer.

So I've been back and forth on what my next move was with the current loads not acceptable to me. Move up to Super Duty level, or make the Expy situation work out. This weekend I decided I'd put the trailer on a diet and see if I could made some headway, and I did! I was able to reduce the tongue weight by 200lbs. Here's the changes I made..

• Removed both 30lb propane tanks, swapped in one 20lb tank (3/4 full), and crafted a PVC pipe to support the other missing tanks spot. Got some more changes for this area in mind. I've ordered two 17lb fiberglass tanks that are half the weight of a steel tank. Problem is nobody can seem to get them in stock. So this 20lb tank set up will do for now.
• Re-adjusted my Equalizer, moving the arm brackets further away from the tongue to the recommended 32" distance, probably a move of about 1 3/4" but figure any bit more will assist in transferring more weight from the tongue to the trailer's axles.
• Went through all the cargo, tools, and accessories in the camper and played (do I really need this?). Removed several items, from a small vaccum that is never used to extra water hoses and a teak outdoor shower platform. Yeah, stuff I don't "need".
  
• Moved all heavy items from front storage to storage over axles or in rear of trailer. Between this reorganization and the propane changes I'm sure it was the bulk of the weight savings on the tongue. Only stuff I'm leaving in front storage is sewage hoses, outdoor carpet, small grill, and cellular antenna.

So after doing all this and hooking up immediately I could see a much better stance of the Expys rear end, it was very much improved. Now it was time to get on to a scale and get the results of my efforts.

Wife wasn't crazy about it but we packed pretty much like we were going away for a weekend from clothes in the closets to bikes on the rear mount, dog food, canned food, camp chairs, you name it. So on to the scale...



2010 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer with HD tow. 10,000# Equalizer WDH, 2015 27RBDS Winnebago Ultralite

Truck sticker has payload of 1402, FGVWR of 3700 and RGVWR of 4250
Trailer has two 3500 axles, and an GVWR of 7700

Trucked weighed with one axle each on pad with 2 adults, 1 large dog, one small dog, one small cooler:

Steer Axle: 3040
Drive Axle: 3380


First pass, 2 adults, 1 large dog, one small dog, one small cooler. WDH engaged.

Steer Axle: 3020

Drive Axle: 4100

Trailer Axle: 6740

Gross Weight: 13860


Second pass, 2 adults, 1 large dog, one small dog, one small cooler. WDH arms unloaded


Steer Axle: 2600

Drive Axle: 4700

Trailer Axle: 6560


Third pass, 2 adults, 1 large dog, one small dog, one small cooler. Truck completely on pad 1 of scale, Trailer Jack on middle pad, Trailer axles on rear scale


Steer Axle: 6420

Drive Axle: 900

Trailer Axle: 6540

Gross Weight: 13860



So, as I see it, I went from 1100lb tongue weight to 900lbs! WHD is moving about 180lbs of that 900lb off the tongue and onto the trailer's axles.


Now this wasn't an exact re-test because the payload was different this time compared when I was with 3 teenage boys. Large Rottie weighs 120 so he's close to the size of one of them, wife too, so figure compared to last time the payload was about 220lbs lighter in the truck. But this test is more real for me, because this is the setup I'll have 90% of the time.

So I think I can work with these numbers, especially getting into a Gen 4 Expy with a slightly higher payload and a gain of about 130lbs more capacity on RGVWR. I think I'll be within my needed margins most of the time and some. Maybe not when I take 3 teenage boys, but that one time a year I do that I think it'll be close enough.

I'm happy with the results, happy enough that I'll be shopping for a 4th Gen Expy in the near future. I'll tweak a little more weight off if I can, especially in the propane department and I think it'll work out.

That has GOT to tow noticeably better than before. Did you happen to measure your fender heights with the new setup? Depending on how close your front fender is to unloaded you might be able to even transfer a little more hitch weight.

mwl001 said:

That has GOT to tow noticeably better than before. Did you happen to measure your fender heights with the new setup? Depending on how close your front fender is to unloaded you might be able to even transfer a little more hitch weight.

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I did measure, it was spot on for front axle loaded and unloaded. Rear axle squatted an inch. It certainly felt better driving, but I only got on the highway for about 15 min and during that time I never had a large rig blow past me or encounter any strong cross winds to see how it'd react. I'm light by 20lbs in the front compared to Expy alone with no trailer. I imagine that's good enough?

I'll be curious to see how it will behave when I have my next trip with my 3 growing nephews. After loaded up it's quite the pain to think you might need that last extra washer on the WDH added but you're all ready to go.

Fasttimes said:

I did measure, it was spot on for front axle loaded and unloaded. Rear axle squatted an inch. It certainly felt better driving, but I only got on the highway for about 15 min and during that time I never had a large rig blow past me or encounter any strong cross winds to see how it'd react. I'm light by 20lbs in the front compared to Expy alone with no trailer. I imagine that's good enough?

I'll be curious to see how it will behave when I have my next trip with my 3 growing nephews. After loaded up it's quite the pain to think you might need that last extra washer on the WDH added but you're all ready to go.

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You should be able to bring your front axle back to where you started, I think mine are around 35" high, so yes you are fine being 20lbs light but if you add more weight (to the front axle) and aren't lowering the front ride height at all you may find it rides even better.

Fasttimes said:

I did measure, it was spot on for front axle loaded and unloaded. Rear axle squatted an inch. It certainly felt better driving, but I only got on the highway for about 15 min and during that time I never had a large rig blow past me or encounter any strong cross winds to see how it'd react. I'm light by 20lbs in the front compared to Expy alone with no trailer. I imagine that's good enough?

I'll be curious to see how it will behave when I have my next trip with my 3 growing nephews. After loaded up it's quite the pain to think you might need that last extra washer on the WDH added but you're all ready to go.

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Congrats on getting everything adjusted properly. It must be a relief knowing that that you won't have to swap trailers or tow vehicles. Your tongue is actually a bit light, as the correct measurement is in your second pass. The total load on the vehicle suspension increased by 700 lbs over the truck weight only. Your truck is 6420 and your trailer is 7440, so you'll want at least 750 on the tongue. Some of the trailer weight is on the rear axle with the WDH is hooked up, so you can't go solely by the tongue weight in your third pass. Adding 50 - 150lbs to the tongue will improve stability.

You can probably move some items from the rear storage back to front storage, or just load extra items in the front storage when you're traveling. Load range "E" tires help with stability as well and also provide improved puncture resistance. You shouldn't need to make any adjustments when traveling with your nephews. Just put their belongings in the front storage of the trailer. This will allocate most of the additional weight to the trailer axle so you don't exceed payload in the tow rig. Safe travels!

JasonH said:

Congrats on getting everything adjusted properly. It must be a relief knowing that that you won't have to swap trailers or tow vehicles. Your tongue is actually a bit light, as the correct measurement is in your second pass. The total load on the vehicle suspension increased by 700 lbs over the truck weight only. Your truck is 6420 and your trailer is 7440, so you'll want at least 750 on the tongue. Some of the trailer weight is on the rear axle with the WDH is hooked up, so you can't go solely by the tongue weight in your third pass. Adding 50 - 150lbs to the tongue will improve stability.

You can probably move some items from the rear storage back to front storage, or just load extra items in the front storage when you're traveling. Load range "E" tires help with stability as well and also provide improved puncture resistance. You shouldn't need to make any adjustments when traveling with your nephews. Just put their belongings in the front storage of the trailer. This will allocate most of the additional weight to the trailer axle so you don't exceed payload in the tow rig. Safe travels!

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Shoot, you are right. I forgot to take that into consideration, that the WDH was moving all that weight. But that 150lb added back to the tongue will put me back at my payload limit, and definitely way over when taking nephews the way I see it. It's back to, what is an acceptable number to be over payload? When it's the wife, dogs and I, we are right there, maybe 10lb-15lb over. But when you factor in these boys I'm betting I'm over by 200lb-300lbs.

I think you're conflating payload and tongue weight limits. Your payload limit is on the yellow door sticker. Your tongue weight limit is around 900lbs. With a tongue weight of 800 lbs, you should still have around 600 to 700 lbs of payload remaining.