Frustrating random stall

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BradH29

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Hi there,

I have a 2003 Expedition with 212k km on it. It has been a beast for us, but lately it has had a frustrating problem where you'll be driving, and most often as you're coming to a stop, the engine RPM will suddenly get crazy low (like under 600), and no matter what you do, you cannot rev it up.. it just stays there, up to a minute long, and then eventually dies. If you wait about a minute after that, it'll start again and carry on for another hour or however long it chooses. If you try to restart immediately it'll just crank but not catch. I've taken it to several mechanics - they either couldn't replicate the issue or couldn't figure out what was causing it. Here's what we think we know:

The alternator was replaced after the original died on us on a road trip a couple years ago. We didn't have the stalling problem before that, but it appeared shortly after.

I think the engine may have a bad coil pack somewhere.. it is feeling like it did when that last happened - there's just a bit of stumble and shake.

I read in a forum, possibly this one, about a wire that runs atop one of the AC cooling pipes and apparently can wear and eventually short, causing the stall. I did find evidence of serious wear when I looked, but it wasn't shorting and I taped it up just to make sure.

I found what I think is a vaccuum line that seems to go to a port on the valve cover, top left of the engine. I had been having some rough idle lately, putting that hose there (only place I could see for it to go) seems to have helped that.

Battery is brand new.

If I leave the battery connected with the truck shut down, it will drain completely within 12 hours. So something is drawing on the circuit.

There is no check engine light ever - even when it stalls or is doing the weird low idle.

Many thanks if anyone has ideas on this.
 
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BradH29

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It finally threw a code - it is running really rough today - PO171 which I understand is one bank too lean.

I decided to look for vacuum leaks. The hoses appear to be fine overall, but there is one largish one that runs from something the vacuum diagram calls evap (up on the cowl, and then into the back of something I don't know the name of. It has an extra piece of hose wrapped around it at approximately the midpoint. I think it may be EVAP? Anyway, it is crumbling away -- is that an actual vacuum line?

I looked at the PCV elbow which I understand is another common point of failure, but it seems ok.
 

GAINMOB

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im trying to remember when my fuel pump went out...i think it sounds like the same problems...that and when my alt went out and when i had plug and CoPs go bad
 
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BradH29

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Yeah it's really strange. Today i started it up and it was like everything was normal. But other days not. I'm wondering about that evap hose.. does it care if there's leaks in that or not? At least, I think it's an evap hose.
 

riphip

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It does not like vacuum leaks at all. When I bought mine, 2nd hand, I had vacuum problems & just replaced all the vac hoses since it was so cheap. Most specialty ones from rockauto.com.
Mine had rotted, flaking places in them + the one with check valve behind the battery. Have had no vacuum related problems since 2018 after that. Did PCV & heater valve at the same time.

On edit: You could also be experiencing an overheating FP relay on the power distribution board behind the fuses.
 
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Vancouver Bob

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I've got a 2003 with about 220K miles. My story...

Over the past year or so I've had my engine cut out on me while driving down the freeway. All's good when suddenly I lose all power. I lose speed, lose RPM's, and at some point while I'm still coasting down the freeway, the power comes back online and I accelerate back up to speed and I'm fine. It's never done this more than once on any given outing. One time it did this right while I was on the offramp. Power is lost, I'm slowing down, I'm peddling the accelerator hoping to get some response, RPM's and speed are dropping, then suddenly she comes back online. This isn't my daily driver... probably have it out once a week or so.

Last Friday night I'm driving home from my friend's house. I'm about two miles from home and I get that exact same feeling... loss of power, speed and RPM's dropping, and I'm waiting for power to suddenly come back as usual. But this time it does not come back. I pull over, flashers on, and I'm stuck. Tried restarting many times with absolutely no sign of wanting to start. I replaced my fuel pump not that long ago so didn't think that was the issue. In fact, up until now I thought it was a problem with overdrive since it was always on the freeway. Anyways, I text a friend and he comes to tow me home. But while I'm waiting for him to arrive, I'm still trying to start her up. A few times I got a little response like it wanted to start but never did. So I suspected fuel. When I get home the first thing I do is get on Google and start looking for potential cause. I saw the wire abrasion on the AC line issue and then came across people talking about issues with the fuse box. That perked me up because it involved the fuel pump relay. The biggest help for me was watching this video...


Tried his approach to essentially by pass the fuel pump relay and as soon as I applied 12V to the green/yellow wire terminal on the fuse box, I could hear the fuel pump turn on. Turned the key and it fired right up. Ordered a new OEM fuse box off eBay minutes later. It comes in tomorrow. I could have bought a replacement relay and soldered it in but figured all the other relays could use a refresh.

All that said, I had the luxury of having a dead vehicle so it was easier to diagnose. Not sure how I would have figured this out if it wasn't dead. Heat up the FP relay and see if she shuts down? I'd be afraid of damaging something.
 

Vancouver Bob

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I just re-read your post and saw how your battery would drain in 12 hours. I never had that so probably not related to my issue unless you've got two different things going on.
 

texasscot

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I've got a 2003 with about 220K miles. My story...

Over the past year or so I've had my engine cut out on me while driving down the freeway. All's good when suddenly I lose all power. I lose speed, lose RPM's, and at some point while I'm still coasting down the freeway, the power comes back online and I accelerate back up to speed and I'm fine. It's never done this more than once on any given outing. One time it did this right while I was on the offramp. Power is lost, I'm slowing down, I'm peddling the accelerator hoping to get some response, RPM's and speed are dropping, then suddenly she comes back online. This isn't my daily driver... probably have it out once a week or so.

Last Friday night I'm driving home from my friend's house. I'm about two miles from home and I get that exact same feeling... loss of power, speed and RPM's dropping, and I'm waiting for power to suddenly come back as usual. But this time it does not come back. I pull over, flashers on, and I'm stuck. Tried restarting many times with absolutely no sign of wanting to start. I replaced my fuel pump not that long ago so didn't think that was the issue. In fact, up until now I thought it was a problem with overdrive since it was always on the freeway. Anyways, I text a friend and he comes to tow me home. But while I'm waiting for him to arrive, I'm still trying to start her up. A few times I got a little response like it wanted to start but never did. So I suspected fuel. When I get home the first thing I do is get on Google and start looking for potential cause. I saw the wire abrasion on the AC line issue and then came across people talking about issues with the fuse box. That perked me up because it involved the fuel pump relay. The biggest help for me was watching this video...


Tried his approach to essentially by pass the fuel pump relay and as soon as I applied 12V to the green/yellow wire terminal on the fuse box, I could hear the fuel pump turn on. Turned the key and it fired right up. Ordered a new OEM fuse box off eBay minutes later. It comes in tomorrow. I could have bought a replacement relay and soldered it in but figured all the other relays could use a refresh.

All that said, I had the luxury of having a dead vehicle so it was easier to diagnose. Not sure how I would have figured this out if it wasn't dead. Heat up the FP relay and see if she shuts down? I'd be afraid of damaging something.
I recently did this soldered relay repair. The relay looked perfectly good but one of the soldered joints looked funky. Changing it out completely solved my random stall issue. As I diagnosis it may be worth removing the board and looking at the solder joints. Relatively easy to remove and replace to do this.
 

Uncle Mike

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Down my own path with this issue. Intermittent engine shutting off, and everything else working. When you attempt to start it, engine sounds like there is no power to anything. Wait some time and it starts.
Batter car not running 12.23 volts
Car running voltage at battery 14.32.
Ground seems good and tight.
Tightened and cleaned positive connection. Problem persists.
Searched for wires wearing on AC tubes, not finding any.
Working on opening fuse box to check Fuel Pump next
 
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