Cam Phaser Questions

I just had mine in last week for my 40K service. I told the service manager to NOT do either "update". He looked at me and said "ok, but why?" I told him I'm not sure I have an issue, and I don't want "fixed" what isn't broken. He told me they haven't had any issues with the updates (he obviously doesn't read this forum), but understood because it's "rather invasive". Interestingly, after my app updated, those two "customer service campaigns" disappeared from my app.

I've said it before here, I will NOT get my cam phasers fixed. I'll either get rid if it, or let it blow up first.

Johnb21 said:

Gee guys, I hope I wasn't being overly assumptive in my post. To start, and I don't believe this makes any difference, but my brother-in-law owns the Ford dealership, but I have been working directly with their Service Mgr. I had brought the truck back in after I had the new programming, because it started to shutter. I didn't have this issue before the update. This truck had the cam phasers replaced at around 24k miles, it is at 45k now. My understanding is their is some bulletin that suggests replacing the heads if the shutter continues. I am thinking that replacing the heads is the last stage after a set of prescribed remedies have been implemented. Since Ford will NOT provide a method to reverse the new programming, they have approved the replacement of the heads (assuming the new design). Again, I am scheduled to bring in the truck on 5/31, and ASSUME Ford has given the approval. My truck has also shown signs of strange noises on occasion during startup. Like, chain slap, others times cam phaser rattle and other times normal. Other than that, I always hear those dam turbo wastegate rattles cold and hot, parked and while driving. It sounds like a piece of sh-- and embarrassing when leaving a red light. I hope to have more insight for folks here once I have the truck in for repair.

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Thanks for the update.

If you can get a copy of the bulletin suggesting the head replacement, that would be key.
If you inquire about that, and the service manager tells you there’s no such bulletin, please ask what is the driving factor for their determination to replace the heads.
I am very curious to know what drove that decision for them.
I am equally curious to know if the heads are being replaced with identical ones? Or the new improved design with the stronger 4-bolt arrangement on the mega-cap?

Again, thanks for the update and keep us posted.
Are they planning on doing anything for your turbo noise?

2018ExpyPlatinum said:

I just had mine in last week for my 40K service. I told the service manager to NOT do either "update". He looked at me and said "ok, but why?" I told him I'm not sure I have an issue, and I don't want "fixed" what isn't broken. He told me they haven't had any issues with the updates (he obviously doesn't read this forum), but understood because it's "rather invasive". Interestingly, after my app updated, those two "customer service campaigns" disappeared from my app.

I've said it before here, I will NOT get my cam phasers fixed. I'll either get rid if it, or let it blow up first.

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I am 1000% in agreement about the PCM reprogramming.

As many problems as it has caused for vehicles that otherwise had no issues is alarming. (So much so that Ford had to issue ANOTHER tsb to revert the PCM back, for engines it created a problem in). I mean, WTF?? What the he// is going on at Ford where they issue an official PCM reprogramming that actually causes problems in SOME engines, but not others??? How does that make any sense?! If all the engines are manufactured the same, then all the engines should respond the same to the reprogramming… right?! I mean WTF? Do they seriously have that much of a quality control problem at the assembly plants??

I would not risk that for an engine that has never had any cam phaser problems.

Clearly, not all of our 2018-2019 engines are suffering from oil flow issues, so you would have to be looney to let Ford screw up your PCM.

That being said, if your engine DOES have a cam phaser failure, then you’d be looney to NOT let them replace the broken cam phaser.
I mean, it’s broken. If Ford will replace it, ..let them.
N
And then, depending on how much warranty you have left,…you probably want to sell. Because if it’s happened to you once, it’s only a matter of time before it happens again.

Johnb21 said:

IMO, I wouldn't get the update. I did. It doesn't appear to be reversable or Ford has decided not to reverse the programing like they did in the past. Mine 2018 with 45k, shutter (after program), is going in for new heads in a couple weeks. There has been a design change, but I don't know exactly when Ford incorporated the new heads on factory production vehicles.

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John,
I am attaching a page out of the Ford service manual that shows the head design on my 2018. Notice the 3-bolt mega cap. Save this image to your phone, and then request to perform a receipt inspection of your new heads when they come in.
See if you are getting a new design or just new(rebuilt) 2018 model heads.

NukeLife. I just pm you.

I had to cam phasers fixed about a year and a half ago. When I picked up the car after the repair was “fixed” I told the service technician to come outside with me and we will start the car together to see if it actually fixed it as I was very much under the impression it was the turbos rattling and not cam phasers but of course they wanted to replace the cam phasers.

The rattle was still there and lasted for more than the 3 to 5 seconds that one would hear if it was cam phasers but he informed me I had to drive the car for 1,000 miles to break in the new cam phasers before Ford will let him touch the car again. I brought it back in a year or so later as life got busy and they decided they’d run the software update and of course now my car shutters too.

I’ve given up on this because when I tried to reschedule a fix with the transmission specialist they said it would be four months to get in. I have a bumper to bumper warranty until 125,000 miles plus a lifetime powertrain warranty so I honestly don’t even care anymore, it’s hopeless and a waste of my time to deal with the incompetence at Ford.

I’ll tell you one thing there is absolutely no chance I would own this car if I didn’t have an extended warranty. I love the vehicle to death but Ford obviously has no idea what they’re doing or more likely they just don’t want to recall the 3.5 engine because it’s in millions of vehicles.

ColoradoJon said:

So, my service manager states the 21N08 is the reversing to the first one 21B10 if there is shuddering experienced. Take with a grain of salt, I sort of trust this guy but still not sure about trusting the dealer folks.

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This is what I was told also. I got the 21B10, And if shifting problems develop the 21N08 returns to the previous state. I had one rough shift a couple of miles from the dealership, and thought oh great here we go. It has been perfect ever since. 19,000 miles on our 2018 Limited. No noises so far. Synthetic oil changed every 4-5000 miles.

NukeLife said:

Thanks for the update.

If you can get a copy of the bulletin suggesting the head replacement, that would be key.
If you inquire about that, and the service manager tells you there’s no such bulletin, please ask what is the driving factor for their determination to replace the heads.
I am very curious to know what drove that decision for them.
I am equally curious to know if the heads are being replaced with identical ones? Or the new improved design with the stronger 4-bolt arrangement on the mega-cap?

Again, thanks for the update and keep us posted.
Are they planning on doing anything for your turbo noise?

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If it was me, I would keep my mouth shut until after the heads were replaced. Then I would ask.

NukeLife said:

John,
I am attaching a page out of the Ford service manual that shows the head design on my 2018. Notice the 3-bolt mega cap. Save this image to your phone, and then request to perform a receipt inspection of your new heads when they come in.
See if you are getting a new design or just new(rebuilt) 2018 model heads.
View attachment 73485

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So, do you think that the leak from the mega cap is responsible for these cam phaser issues? basically the phaser runs dry and slams back into position causing the pin to shear??

I was told that the cam phaser isn't getting oil pressure properly. Now this could be from a front cam journal that was not factory machined to the proper tolerance, or because the cam cap isn't keeping things together properly leading to the worn journal/cam phaser oil issue. So yes I believe, a leak, resulting in low pressure. I hear they went from a 2 bolt to 3 bolt cap. I thought someone mentioned 3 to 4, but I am pretty sure the new head is a 3 bolt cap. Right?