For Those Who Don't Think a Catch Can is Needed on Gen 4 s...

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chaffdb

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Our '22 has about 900 miles on it, and I am going to do the first oil change and install a catch can system this weekend at around 1000 miles on the odometer. I know it's not necessary, but I have run catch cans on other vehicles in the past and have read enough and seen enough, including in this thread, to believe in the benefit.

I have also read the JLT catches the majority of the stuff on the dirty side and they are the only one listed as fitting a '22. I decided to at least look into the dual side setups though and reached out to UPR and RXP to ask a few questions, including whether they knew if their setups would fit a '22 or if they had that in the works. RXP's voicemail requested contact by sending a message through their website. I did so on 9/19 or 9/20, but unfortunately, despite regularly checking my spam folder, I don't believe I ever received a response. UPR, however, took my call and said they had installed one of their "Plug n Play Dual Valve with CSCC" kits for a '21-22 F150 on a '22 Expedition. They advised it doesn't require drilling and could be returned to stock if ever desired. It wasn't cheap, is admittedly probably overkill, and may not be "as good" as a full upgraded RXP setup, but the time they spent on the phone answering my questions and the features presented convinced me to give them my business. They gave me a little price break, too, for what it's worth. It's got braided hose, billet hose ends, hose connectors that are similar to factory but with dual push buttons, and is fully serviceable. I didn't go with the Mega can based on their advice, but I did go with the "Pro Series" check valves, the drain line/valve for the can, and the one-way valve cover breather. UPR advised the latter wasn't necessary in my application but would provide a fail-safe in the case of excessive crank case pressure. I have no connection to UPR or anything against the other two. I'll take some photos and post after my install, especially if there are any issues. I realize this kit is not listed as fitting my ride, but they said they had done it and it worked no problem, so we'll see.
 
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m3olsen

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@chaffdb , this is the second time today I've come across a thread from you that I'm investigating doing myself. I will be very curious to hear how this goes for you. Thanks for posting.
 

LokiWolf

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Let's correct a few things. Port injection does not solve the deposit issue, but it does decrease it. The port injectors are not spraying fuel all the time, like they are on an engine that just has port injectors. Is a catch can required on a new 2nd gen 3.5TT, nope, want to go that extra step to keeping your intake clean, then it is the way to go. It is a simple install, and a simple empty. I empty mine at every oil change, or before if I am under the hood for other reasons.
 

LokiWolf

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IMO catch cans are not needed on Gen 4's and results using them could be misleading.
If your catch can is full what is the oil % that is the big number. Gas in the PVC gets reburned no issue for the engine.
In high climate areas the nature of the metal catch can will collect condensation. Without it condensation would be burned in the engine which is no big deal either. So just because there is gas in the catch can over a long period of time does not mean it prevented any sludge from going in the engine. Unless you can derive the exact oil content its impossible to know the value.
Also if it was a lot of oil in the PVC then these engines would be running low on oil every month.

Also what is the impact towards warranty and altering the emission systems. Some states its illegal to mod the emission system.
A few ounces of oil less in the oil pan won't show over a even an extended change interval on the stick, but a few ounces of oil deposited in the intake can create A LOT of deposits. Your oil can be easily changed, and is regularly, cleaning your intake on the other hand can be a pain, and possibly damaging if not done correctly.
 

LazSlate

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A few ounces of oil less in the oil pan won't show over a even an extended change interval on the stick, but a few ounces of oil deposited in the intake can create A LOT of deposits. Your oil can be easily changed, and is regularly, cleaning your intake on the other hand can be a pain, and possibly damaging if not done correctly.

IMO I do not think people will see any benefits in the short term. The intakes were usually never the issue it was always the valves which have all the high temps. Ford changed the injectors to clean these each cycle. Most people get cheap Catch Cans and only do the one side on the passenger so in reality its not really doing much at all. Just collecting 99% water and gas and a very tiny amount of oil. If one was to go down the catch can route it should be high quality tanks with baffles and installed on both sides. I am not against the catch can concept just most of the time its not really needed or the implementation is sub standard to do any good.
 

LokiWolf

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IMO I do not think people will see any benefits in the short term. The intakes were usually never the issue it was always the valves which have all the high temps. Ford changed the injectors to clean these each cycle. Most people get cheap Catch Cans and only do the one side on the passenger so in reality its not really doing much at all. Just collecting 99% water and gas and a very tiny amount of oil. If one was to go down the catch can route it should be high quality tanks with baffles and installed on both sides. I am not against the catch can concept just most of the time its not really needed or the implementation is sub standard to do any good.
So, How many Ecoboosts have you had experience with and had a Catch Can on? I have put one on all of the ones in my signature.

Also, I put those "cheap" cans you speak of, J&L(JLT) to be specific. Dual setups are better, for sure. It has been well documented the majority is collected on one side. Want to catch it all, do a dual setup. Want to catch the majority for about a 1/4 of the price, do a good single setup like J&L.

Catch cans have NEVER been about the short term. Always been about the long term. All of my empties have definitely had oil in them. I would estimate out of the 2 ounces I get every time, half is oil. If you let it sit, it will separate.

In addition, when I said intake, I meant intake manifold not the air intake, my bad on not clarifying.
 
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chaffdb

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Catch cans have NEVER been about the short term. Always been about the long term. All of my empties have definitely had oil in them. I would estimate out of the 2 ounces I get every time, half is oil. If you let it sit, it will separate.
This is my thinking. As long as it's solid and reliable, we plan on keeping this vehicle long term and getting a lot of use out of it. I have had a tendency to keep vehicles too long on several occasions, and might this one if we still really like it as time goes by. This thread is making me consider doing an oil analysis of what comes out of my catch can down the road. I am a fan of getting an analysis of the motor oil every other oil change or every few changes at least to see how things are going. Again probably overkill, but such is my nature I guess. Might be worth the $30 just to see what all is in there. I'll post it here if I do, but I'm putting the cart ahead of the horse since it hasn't even been installed yet.

Going back to an older gen motor without the port injection I know, but my nephew has a '13 F150 4X4 with the Ecoboost that had just under 100k miles when he got it a couple years ago. It's never gotten great fuel mileage or had power that was all that impressive. After reading on here and elsewhere, I suggested he try some of the CRC GDI IVD Intake Valve and Turbo Cleaner that Loki recommended on here somewhere. He has ordered it and plans to try it soon. If it makes an improvement I think he'll be installing a JLT setup on it.
 

LokiWolf

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This is my thinking. As long as it's solid and reliable, we plan on keeping this vehicle long term and getting a lot of use out of it. I have had a tendency to keep vehicles too long on several occasions, and might this one if we still really like it as time goes by. This thread is making me consider doing an oil analysis of what comes out of my catch can down the road. I am a fan of getting an analysis of the motor oil every other oil change or every few changes at least to see how things are going. Again probably overkill, but such is my nature I guess. Might be worth the $30 just to see what all is in there. I'll post it here if I do, but I'm putting the cart ahead of the horse since it hasn't even been installed yet.

Going back to an older gen motor without the port injection I know, but my nephew has a '13 F150 4X4 with the Ecoboost that had just under 100k miles when he got it a couple years ago. It's never gotten great fuel mileage or had power that was all that impressive. After reading on here and elsewhere, I suggested he try some of the CRC GDI IVD Intake Valve and Turbo Cleaner that Loki recommended on here somewhere. He has ordered it and plans to try it soon. If it makes an improvement I think he'll be installing a JLT setup on it.
It will definitely help. Have used it on several older Eco's with good results. All I can say is FOLLOW the instructions to the T. Also, if it is bad, doing it 2 times about 500 miles apart can help too. Good luck, and drop me a line if you have any questions. I don't get on here as much as I used to, but I see the direct messages quicker.
 

chaffdb

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Ok, I said I was going to do the first oil change and install a catch can system last weekend on our '22, and I did....but the parts in my kit didn't match the directions. I said I would be honest, and here it is. UPR messed up. I emailed them Monday and sent some photos and questions. They complimented the photos and said they'd like to use them on their site with my permission, but they admitted they made a mistake and sent me the the Clean Side Separator (CSS) used in their '15-'21 Expedition kits instead of the Clean Side Catch Can (CSCC) that is part of their latest "Plug n Play Dual Valve" kit for '21-'22 F-150's and '22 Expeditions. They apologized for sending the wrong part and got a CSCC kit in the mail to me. It came in yesterday and I got it put on. First oil change was also done and I sent the oil out for analysis. I'll post that when it comes back. As for UPR, I'm impressed with their customer service. Everyone can and does make mistakes on occasion, and correcting them tells a lot about a company. No complaints here.

As for now, for anyone wanting to install a UPR kit on a '22, I hope this helps. This is my experience as a shade tree mechanic. I usually limit myself to fluid and filter changes, brakes and rotors, and installing aftermarket parts. This was not difficult at all, but more details on the ins and outs of that for me below. This is going to be pic heavy and in several separate posts.

Part 1:

First, here are the two lines that will be removed/replaced. The short line with brown/blue release buttons on the connectors in the first photo is the passenger or "dirty" side PCV tube from engine to intake. In the second photo, the longer line in the center of the photo with similar shaped connectors but with orange instead of the blue/brown is the driver side "clean" CCV line going from engine to turbo intake.

Photo Oct 02, 7 24 44 AM.jpgPhoto Oct 02, 7 24 34 AM.jpg

The first step is to remove the cold air intake. The two plastic connectors are pretty easy. A flat screwdriver would work, but I had a plastic trim removal tool (orange in photo) that worked well.
Photo Oct 02, 7 32 45 AM.jpg

The single bolt looks easy, but space is somewhat limited. My hands aren't huge, but they are probably above average size, and I couldn't find my 1/4" ratchet for some reason. A 3/8" drive ratchet might work eventually but would have taken me forever. Maybe one with finer ratcheting clicks than mine might work better. Anyway, this little tool (VIM Tools HBR5), while not necessary, worked great. I picked it up a few years ago based on a recommendation on the ADVRider forum for a motorcycle tool kit, and it has come in handy on more than one occasion. It's a little expensive for what it is, but it seems well made.
Photo Oct 02, 7 38 32 AM.jpg
After removing the cold air intake, it's time to mount the larger catch can directly below where it was. UPR utilizes a hole already present. Tightening the nut with lock washer behind the bracket (bottom center of photo below, although nut and lock washer are not visible) is another place where space is at a premium. 1/4" ratchet would have come in handy, but I was able to get it done with a fairly coarse 3/8". This is the 3" can and not the 4" "Mega."

Photo Oct 02, 8 47 53 AM.jpg
 
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chaffdb

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Part 2:

Here is what the inside of the can looks like, and another of it mounted. I went with the remote valve so it can be drained without opening the hood. Drain valve is zip tied to the frame behind the bumper.
Photo Oct 02, 8 36 15 AM.jpgPhoto Oct 02, 8 48 00 AM.jpg
Next you remove the factory PCV tube on passenger side from photo 1 above. This is easily done with the factory connectors, and you can put this part aside in case you ever want to go back to stock. The you route the two provided hoses to the Catch Can, paying attention to which one as the check valve, which way it is pointed, and which fittings you are connecting to. This part is all very easy, and if you were just doing the "dirty" side, you'd basically be done.
Photo Oct 02, 9 07 26 AM.jpg
For the driver/clean/CCV side, Ford decided to use a different connector, the ones in orange in the second photo. According to UPR, there is no tool from Ford to remove this fitting. They suggest using a 90 degree pick or hook to remove it and admit you will likely break the connectors when removing. They provide photos and dedicated several pages to this step. They also provide replacement quick release ends for the factory hose in case you ever want to go back to "near" stock. It would function as stock, but without these ends, it will be obvious the hose has been removed and the ends replaced if anyone looks closely. I had a cheap 90 degree pick from Harbor Freight that worked exactly as UPR suggested. This was one of the harder steps but really not terrible, and I did break both connectors getting them off.
Photo Oct 02, 7 55 27 AM.jpgPhoto Oct 02, 7 55 33 AM.jpg
They suggest a heat gun or lighter to warm the factory tube to replace the fittings. I used a heat gun and it made quick work of it, and then you can put the factory hose away for safe keeping. (Ok, I had to use it for a few days until the CSCC came in, but generally you shouldn't.)
 

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