04 Navi No Start-No Crank No PWR to OBD

[03NavigatorGuy]

I recently purchased a nice ’04 Navi with the above issues, from the owner who said he was tired of chasing issues and not having any success. It is very clean and rust free, and I’d love to see if I can, with some help from y’all here, figure things out, and where to start, as many things have been done, seemingly without confirming what was/is/are the real and continued issue(s).

History: Owner stated the first thing that happened was the instrument cluster went blank, then he stated he was having issues with it intermittently not starting, so he replaced the starter, the problem continued. he put new connectors on the battery side as he said the original were corroded, but problem contend. He then took it to a mechanic, who advised him it was “probably” the Central1Junction-Box. He had them instal a working “used” box, Navi seemed to start ok. Shortly there after the radiator started to leak so a new radiator was installed. The owner tell me that after the instal, the Navi would not crank. His mechanic advised him it was probably the ignition, so the ignition was replaced, and STILL no start, so he had it towed back home were it sat for a year till now. I noticed that it has had a new alternator, but not sure if the previous owner had that done to help resolve any of the above mentioned issues or simply because it failed.

Current Issues:

No Crank No Start - key in start position causes click in trailer-tow relay.

No communication to PCM from OBD2.

No power to fuel pump unless relay bypassed.

Gear selector won’t release when key on/brake pressed.

Instrument cluster will not illuminate.

Turn signals not working - flashers DO work.

HVAC panel has no power.

Items that DO work:

Power windows, door locks, seat, moonroof, Navigation/Stereo system, wipers, interior and exterior lights.

Security system light flashes at what appears to be a normal rate, definitely not fast.

What I have investigated/done:

Starter will crank engine when it is jumped.

Fuel pump will activate when relay is bypassed/ but no start issue still present.

Connections to PCM are tight.

Check all fuses to be good/replaced PCM power relay with new relay as a precaution.

Confirmed fuse 41 was not blown.

"Click" comes from Trailer-tow relay in CJB when key is turned to the start position.

Thanks in advance, for any helpful troubleshooting advice!

 

[Hamfisted]

Can you get the part number off the sticker on the fuse box ? Google that part number, and if it's not for an '04 Navigator, that could very well be the root of your problems. You've got too much stuff not getting power to even guess otherwise. The part number should be on a sticker on either top or bottom of the fuse box. You can read it with a flashlight and mirror, or use your phone to take a picture of it.


https://www.fordpartsgiant.com/oem-...Model=Navigator&Year=2004&Submodel=&Filter=()

 

[03NavigatorGuy]

I will take a look at see what it is!


The one that it had when I purchased it was part# 4L1T-14A067-AC. Not knowing if the CJB was still good, I replaced it with one that I had purchased for my other 03 Navi., and the one that is presently installed, but no discernible difference, if any, in equipment working and/or not working. It's part # is
2L1T14A067-AP. Not sure why the different part #'s but the both show to be for 2003-2006 Navigators.

 

[Hamfisted]

Are they both that old ? And they were both used when you bought them ? Take a look at the PCM relay in the upper right corner and inspect it for any melted plastic, on the relay, and on the socket it fits into.

 

[03NavigatorGuy]

I don't know the history of 4L1T-14A067-AC, which the previous owner told me his mechanic tested as "good" and installed it. I know that I purchased mine 2L1T-14A067-AP, a couple of years ago, as a rebuilt/refurbished, and its been sitting on a shelf since. The original looks okay, doesn't look burnt or melted.

 

[stamp11127]

have fun...

 

[03NavigatorGuy]

have fun...

Thanks! Wiring is so NOT my thing, but I guess I am gonna "TRY" to figure things out if I can!

 

[stamp11127]

I teach electrical for trucks and heavy equipment, have a question just ask.

 

[03NavigatorGuy]

UPDATE:

I have checked fuses: #28, #32, #33 & # 34 and they DO NOT have power with Key on OR off.

Fuses #101 and #102 DO have power to them.

Also, I did check and I do have power on pin #16 at the DLC with the scan tool.

 

[TobyU]

UPDATE:

I have checked fuses: #28, #32, #33 & # 34 and they DO NOT have power with Key on OR off.

Fuses #101 and #102 DO have power to them.

Also, I did check and I do have power on pin #16 at the DLC with the scan tool.

I had a similar prob with a Trailblazer also 98+ town cars are bad to corrode or melt the large maxi fuse connections in down in the box under the hood and not start and/or crank.

I would start with WD-40-ing the heck out of every fuse hole terminal and push fuse in 2-3 times.
It can be other fuse that feeds one of those.

Of course looking at a diagram would tell you the path to those fuses and might speed things up.

Then wiggle test with the wires while checking those fuses for power to see if you can find a flaky connection.

LOTS of problems with 2nf gen fuse box and GEM ( I think that's the name) from water leaking from sunroof tube or door/windshield and running right down the top of it.

 

[stamp11127]

I won't have access to wiring diagrams until I go back to work in August. Until then if another member could post the power distrubution diagrams we can get started with tracing the circuits. If no one posts them, you can get them off ebay in dvd form.

 

[03NavigatorGuy]

So I checked the neutral safety switch AKA: Digital Transmission Range Sensor (DTR), and there is no power at the transmission connector.

Here are the diagrams that I am getting from ALLDATA, if there are others needed, let me know. This is learn as I go experience for me, so what might be obvious to some here might take me a bit to figure it out.

View attachment 35569

View attachment 35570

View attachment 35571

View attachment 35572

 

[stamp11127]

You really can't read those. Print the diagrams as pdf files and upload those - heck of a lot easier to read.

 

[03NavigatorGuy]

Hopefully these are clearer for you.

View attachment 35579

View attachment 35580

View attachment 35581

View attachment 35582

 

[stamp11127]

Slightly better. Looking at CBJtoPCM_DTR_STARTPDF.pdf are you able to read and understand the drawing? The answer will determine how detailed I need to make future replies. Also do you understand the difference between series and parallel connections?

 

[03NavigatorGuy]

Yes, I believe I am grasping the what the diagram is showing: fuse # 102 sends power to ignition switch, fuse #101 sends power to starter relay, which will send power to the send power to the Starter motor if it gets the correct signal for the DTR and the PCM. I understand the basic concept of serial and parallel connections. Hopefully I can keep up!

 

[stamp11127]

In your first post you state when you jump the starter it cranks. Where are you jumping it at?

You can use a meter or test light to follow the path the electricity follows starting at fuse 102. I use sewing needles inserted into connectors as test points instead of poking holes in the wire insulation.

With the negative meter probe or test lights lead wire placed on a good ground, you use the red probe or test light probe to find positive voltage at specific points:

Test fuse 102 on both test points and follow the wire on the diagram

Test the pin 4 light green/violet wire at the ignition switch

Check pin 11 red/ light blue wire back at the central junction box with the ign switch in start

Check pin 3 tan/red wire also at the central junction box trans in park or neutral

Pull starter relay - check 86 when key is in start, trans in park/neutral

You will have power at some points then you will loose it at the next point tested. The problem then lies between the last two points you tested.

If you have power all the way to the pin 3 then the pcm isn't grounding the circuit or you have a failed starter relay. One way to verify is to ground pin 1 dark blue / orange wire that leads to the pcm

What you are checking is the control portion of the starting circuit. It is wired in series - any part fails in the circuit and it doesn't work.

 

[03NavigatorGuy]

Jumping the starter from underneath - old school. Tomorrow if in between the rain, I will try and check those connections you mention and see where it leads. Thank you for your help!

 

[stamp11127]

OK, so one test before doing the above steps. Pull the starter relay in the central junction box. Using a jumper wire, jump 30 to 87. If the starter works then the issue is on the control side of the starter relay. If it doesn't then it is on the high current side.

 

[03NavigatorGuy]

Had to wait for a break in the rain. But when I jumped 30 to 87 it did cause the starter to crank!