2011 - cam phasers, new engineer or walk away?

[skdrake04]

I always find the best feedback on my Exploror forum so hoping for the best here. I have an odd situation. My friend recently purchased an '11 Expedition, King Ranch, 150k miles with a disclosed timing issue. Sounds like the cold start rattle I've been reading about on here. It moved into more rough clanking time to time. Said friend used a mechanic he knows to do it "cheep". uggghhhh. got a timing kit and cam phasers online and worked on it at the house. so.... yeah. Drove fine. Noise gone. but then a crazy rattle parking on my up hill driveway. fast forward a few months and about 2,000 miles and the vehicle stalled out on a small highway with a teen driver. She desribed it as the noise you make going over speed strips at the roundabout, died, all lights on, wouldn't start, towed it home... now starts but throwing a code for the Cam Phaser retard timing. The teen (her car) has said I'm out and wants to dump it.

They are selling for $3k but teen also damaged rear bumper. All this in one day. You guys thoughts?

I'm debating buying it for the $3k as rest is in good condition:
- was the timing job done poorly and needs to be redone?
- Could we now have possible engine damage so instead do a rebuilt engine replacement?
- Walk away and wish them luck?

 

[eddytheexpy]

Since they did it "cheep" I'm curious if they used Ford parts or aftermarket for the timing job. Saves quite a bit on parts but significantly increases chances of failure.

If it's saying the phaser is over retarded, that could be indicative of a loose timing chain. so maybe a guide failed and that noise was the chain not meshing properly with the crank/cam sprockets. It's weird that it wouldn't start but then started after it was towed home. Seeing how it stalled while being driven by a teen driver, are you certain they shifted back to park before trying to turn it over before the tow truck showed up? I know 16-19 year old me probably wouldn't have remembered to do that.

If it were me, I'd try to get a better deal off them though I know it's your friend and not trying to screw them. IMHO, the risk to reward just isn't good enough. Even if the engine was good but needed the timing job redone, it costed me ~$2k start-to-finish when I just recently did one on my 2011 with genuine ford parts (that $2k included lash adjusters and roller followers and a bunch of other things while I was in there). I'd say that's pretty close to best case scenario which you'll be in ~$4K for a maybe ~$8K vehicle.

Try to get the actual code and see what info is out there on it regarding failure modes that'll throw it.

 

[skdrake04]

and in that regard I would be better to do the

Since they did it "cheep" I'm curious if they used Ford parts or aftermarket for the timing job. Saves quite a bit on parts but significantly increases chances of failure.

If it's saying the phaser is over retarded, that could be indicative of a loose timing chain. so maybe a guide failed and that noise was the chain not meshing properly with the crank/cam sprockets. It's weird that it wouldn't start but then started after it was towed home. Seeing how it stalled while being driven by a teen driver, are you certain they shifted back to park before trying to turn it over before the tow truck showed up? I know 16-19 year old me probably wouldn't have remembered to do that.

If it were me, I'd try to get a better deal off them though I know it's your friend and not trying to screw them. IMHO, the risk to reward just isn't good enough. Even if the engine was good but needed the timing job redone, it costed me ~$2k start-to-finish when I just recently did one on my 2011 with genuine ford parts (that $2k included lash adjusters and roller followers and a bunch of other things while I was in there). I'd say that's pretty close to best case scenario which you'll be in ~$4K for a maybe ~$8K vehicle.

Try to get the actual code and see what info is out there on it regarding failure modes that'll throw it.

And in that regard would be better to do the $3900 reman engine that says updated timing, new pistons, updated lifters, reman cylinder heads, premium gaskets, Mellings oil pump, updated valve covers, front timing cover, oil pan, new updated VVT, new update Cam phasers... w 5 year warranty.

Does this '11 model have any transmission issues to be concerned about? I could be $2k purchase + $4k engine + no more than $1k to replace said engine so $7k all in not a bad idea. Bumper as they crashed it... but nothing major that some epoxy and tape couldn't suffice for now. My goal? I have a 2013, 180k mile Explorer 3.6 V6. Single mom. Would like something with more towing power for me and my camper. And I have a teen driver coming on board in 12 months so thinking ahead what to do for her car. Expedition for me.. explorer for her.

 

[eddytheexpy]

well if you can do all that with $5k, I've definitely heard of worse deals. But, then there's the matter of other work as it's still a 14 year old vehicle. Since you want to tow with it, you should be considering rebuilding the suspension as well, new ball joints at an absolute minimum. I don't believe transmission issues are all that common with this rig but they still happen.

So I guess this is sorta on the edge of financially viable. But, I do all my own work so the crazy labor rates and wild mark-ups on parts as of late are replaced by a case or two of beer and I'm not sure if that's the situation you're in.

Has this been seen by a mechanic since the stall? We could be talking about new engine here just to find out a VCT solenoid decided to pack it in.

 

[JamaicaJoe]

The chain guides reportedly wear off and clog the oil pick up screen. Could that cause an oil pressure problem going up a driveway? Then on highway at speed? Just thinking out loud here but if one were to open the drain plug, remove the filter and pump oil or solvent backwards through the oil pick up would that clear a clogged screen?

 

[Herby]

Replace engine with a unit from Powertrain.