2018+ towing+ rear spring questions.

utekineir

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Hi,

Tldr: Currently considering a 2018+ expedition or navigator. First use would be family space, second use would be as an alternative tow vehicle for some local use and road trips.

Background: Have owned various trucks and suv and sorted them for adequate tow use. Relevant here would be a 2016 navigator L (purchased for the 4.10 ratio only nav L had) modified with load e tires, sumo springs and running an equalizer wd. Power and stability were awesome pulling a 24" car hauler at around 7500+ lbs, but the independent rear always required far more tension on the wd bars than an equivalent half ton truck. Have also owned 7.3 excursion, hd trucks and currently have a newer 6.7 cummins 3/4 that will be kept. Have considered acquiring an andersen wd in the past for the reduction in weight vs equalizer.

What would be towed: At the heavy end, 24' atc quest 405 large brick car hauler, weight on sticker is around 3800 lbs as equipped 4200 or so. Car inside would range from 3000-3800 lbs. Drivetrain wise the past 16' navigator and a past 18' f150 had 0 issues power wise with the same sort of trailer and similar or higher weights. Also have an open aluminum car hauler trailer that could be used which would have 0 concerns for setup or weight. The vast majority of my towing consists of myself alone with no more than one passenger on occasion. Payloads arent a huge concern even at the 14xx rating of a lot of exp/nav.

Current possibilities: Started off looking to keep the suv addition cheap, in this market that meant 2016/17 (carplay) exp/nav with around 100k-120k miles in the low to mid $20k range and specifically looking for the load leveling rear option on exp, or 4x2 navigators where it was standard. Dropping the miles put those vehicles into the $35-45k range, which then made it a no brainer to redo searching to 2018. Navigators in this market still apparently hold no resale value and a $100k msrp black label in the range of 50k miles can be had for a minor premium over a similar expedition platnium. Payload stays similar, power goes up unnecessarily and the ford extended warranty options stay the same, lincoln certified also is far superior (6/100k from new b2b). However there is a signifigant drop in advertised tow rating removing the legal buffer provided by the 9200 of the expedition on paper.

Looking into the navigator possibility I'm pretty much positive the spring rates are significantly softer than the expedition which explains the reduction in tow rating despite vehicle weights and payloads being very close. Part numbers show expedition having different springs for tow package, which do not line up with the springs for navigator. Best case is a direct swap of expedition springs onto the navigator, worst case would probably be also changing mounts/struts to expedition equivalent assuming ccd is the same connection on both which due to parts binning likely is the case. Sumo springs, swaybars and load e tires are on the table if needed. The sumosprings were a fantastic upgrade on my 2016 navigator even unloaded due to its soft springs. Downside to this route is borderline legal numbers for the occasional heavy tow. But every other aspect would be far improved for similar enough money.

Possibility 3: 23' sequoia. More money, worse interior space, but solid rear axle, oem air, oem tow mirrors and plenty of power, toyota resale after this market melts down probably puts actual cost to own similar to an 18 exp/nav.

Long or short wheelbase is pretty much up in the air, the past space of excursion and nav L was awesome and obviously bigger wheelbase for towing, but a more livable day to day vehicle has a lot of appeal and in the navigator case any extra legal tow rating is gold.

I've read through as much as i can find here related to the absence of truly supplementing the suspension of the platform. Does anyone know of an example of expedition springs/suspension onto a navigator? Or any other don't be stupid feedback.

Thanks.
 
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utekineir

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PXL_20220731_000917926.jpg


Bought a used thing. Aprox weight of trailer pictured is 8k lbs, car pulled back far as possible, vehicle fully oem, would not see significant other weight apart from driver and one passenger when hauling that trailer. Equalizer 1,000tw/10k hitch, not set super strong.

As a stock starting point absolutely is better than the 2016 navigator L i owned in past.

On table: 18" tires with higher load rating than the oem 22's, likely load e. Sumo spring coil inserts, moderately higher wd tension.

Also have been communicating with coil springs specialties about custom springs. Would be likely the best option.
 

JasonH

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I suggest visiting a scale. It does not appear you're moving enough of the rear axle load back to the front. If you're hauling a vehicle in the trailer you'll want to make sure your tongue load is in the 10 - 15% range. You'll probably want to mark the spot in the trailer that gets you there, so the tongue weight will be consistently within that range.
 
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utekineir

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I suggest visiting a scale. It does not appear you're moving enough of the rear axle load back to the front. If you're hauling a vehicle in the trailer you'll want to make sure your tongue load is in the 10 - 15% range. You'll probably want to mark the spot in the trailer that gets you there, so the tongue weight will be consistently within that range.

I agree and i'm fully aware of the 10-15%.

In this case the vehicle was as far back as its going to go (<1 ft to ramp door and at the end of the escape hatch for door opening). Zl1 1le camaro is nose heavy and long. Re the wd, i'm not tensioning it to megadick levels where things feel like they are going to break over contours and sharp turns. My 16' nav L needed that, it wasn't enjoyable.

Mounted some oem f150 goodyears i had around with a marginally higher load rating today, sumo coil spacers should be here this week will see if that and a bit more tension on the wd has a positive effect. If it doesn't custom springs it is.
 

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