2019 Limited - Cam Phasers

[sipes16]

I have now read through quite a few threads on the dreaded cam phasers and our 2019 limited has just recently began having the startup rattle and only had around 49,800 miles on it when I first noticed it. The great part is that the factory warranty ended back in July, just over 2 months ago, there was never any signs of issue and within the last couple weeks with it being colder overnight, does it each morning. I doubt could have gotten Ford to do anything under warranty without any signs. The APIM is also having issues, but that's an easy fix I can do myself, just frustrating on the cost side of it.

My main question is if anyone has had any luck with Ford helping out at all. I called corporate Ford and the customer service representative wasn't very helpful and wouldn't let me talk to anyone else to see if there was anything that could be done. She said that the day the warranty ends they don't help at all. Its disappointing that its a very known issue with TSB's and everything and all they ever ask is if I have an extended warranty. The TSB that is floating around these forums show they will cover up to 70,000 miles but it expired in 2023. The local dealership quoted us $4,900 to fix it. Pretty ridiculous for an engine under 50,000 to have such a major issue.

I know the noise can be mitigated with a longer crank time before the engine fires. Has anyone ever played with the cranking time, is it possible with something like Forscan? If I crank it with the gas pedal down for a second or two longer so that it doesn't fire right away the noise is gone, because I assume the cam phasers have gotten pressurized oil at that point. I grew up building Honda's and they had a similar situation with chain tensioners and oil draining out overnight causing a startup rattle.

 

[Bmac1955]

The only thing I could say is continue with the cold flood start up and change oil and Filter at timely intervals with good quality oil and ford filter. I change mine between 4 to 5k. or by time which is about 8 months regardless of mileage..My CP's were replaced at
35k under warranty. I have a ford premium warranty that I purchased when I bought the vehicle which gives me peace of mind. Rather expensive but too many things could create expensive repairs. Good luck. BTW replacement CP'S
we're old style and not updated which pissed me off. But that's ford for you. Use up old stock first. Stupid logic.

 

[Soliyou]

I have now read through quite a few threads on the dreaded cam phasers and our 2019 limited has just recently began having the startup rattle and only had around 49,800 miles on it when I first noticed it. The great part is that the factory warranty ended back in July, just over 2 months ago, there was never any signs of issue and within the last couple weeks with it being colder overnight, does it each morning. I doubt could have gotten Ford to do anything under warranty without any signs. The APIM is also having issues, but that's an easy fix I can do myself, just frustrating on the cost side of it.

My main question is if anyone has had any luck with Ford helping out at all. I called corporate Ford and the customer service representative wasn't very helpful and wouldn't let me talk to anyone else to see if there was anything that could be done. She said that the day the warranty ends they don't help at all. Its disappointing that its a very known issue with TSB's and everything and all they ever ask is if I have an extended warranty. The TSB that is floating around these forums show they will cover up to 70,000 miles but it expired in 2023. The local dealership quoted us $4,900 to fix it. Pretty ridiculous for an engine under 50,000 to have such a major issue.

I know the noise can be mitigated with a longer crank time before the engine fires. Has anyone ever played with the cranking time, is it possible with something like Forscan? If I crank it with the gas pedal down for a second or two longer so that it doesn't fire right away the noise is gone, because I assume the cam phasers have gotten pressurized oil at that point. I grew up building Honda's and they had a similar situation with chain tensioners and oil draining out overnight causing a startup rattle.

I have not seen cases showing ford helping after warranty. Ridiculous!

Long crank times can help at the beginning, after some time it will rattle while cranking. The deterioration is pretty fast.

 

[blue_roster_cult]

I have nearly 190k, and it is time for the sprockets to be replaced (again). I’m going to do it myself this time. Mine is so bad that the engine struggles to fire up, but I have found that when I park the truck, shut it off, and immediately and momentarily re-fire the engine, the sprockets will re-engage in fire-up timing with the oil pressure already present. (This is all my best guess as to what is occurring). Then, when I come back the next day to re-fire, it fires right up. So something is working out there. At this point, the long restart at full throttle is only so effective, so that is where you will end up after 100k miles of cold start rattle. Still runs good though.

 

[baller32]

2018 getting the same sound and issue. At least I have 130,000 miles, but the real kicker is about 5 months ago I had to put a new transmission in it and spent $7k on it already. Not this, doesn't sound like this is cheap either. I tried the cold start trick , but that didn't seem to change anything besides have a long start up. I have a 2015 F150 with 100,000 miles and its been solid (knock on wood) no issues to date. I thought purchasing a 2018 Expo would get me the same results, boy was I wrong. I will really be in the hole with this one with new transmission and now cam phasers.

 

[Chris Mellas]

I thought I would share this.
I have a 2019 Expedition, and 2 years ago I stated getting a "Rattle on Cold Start Ups".

The Ford dealer tried to put the OLD part number in, which was ML3Z-6256-A 1X.
Upon further research, I found the new replacement Cam Phasers, which was ML3Z-6C525-A 1X.

The Service Manager wasn't even aware that there was a new part available.

I recommend checking the part number of the new Cam Phasers if you're going to have this repaired.

 

[chad81]

I also have a 2019 Expedition Limited Max with the 3.5 Ecoboost and at 68K miles I started getting the dreaded cam phaser rattle... but I had a better experience than the original poster so wanted to share my experience as well in case it helps anyone.

I took mine to the local Ford dealer for the "official" diagnosis and they gave me a quote for just over $5K to replace the phasers explaining it was out of warranty. I didn't authorize the work and when I went to pick it up the service rep asked me if I had any questions...

I "kindly" but obviously annoyed said nope, no questions, just a few comments... and proceeded to explain that in 2021 when my expedition was only two years old and had about 12k miles on it (as I barely drove it during covid) I got a customer satisfaction bulletin pertaining to this exact issue which explained ford would cover or share the cost of replacement phasers at some percentage based on mileage so long as the claim was made by Jan 1, 2023 by which point mine had maybe 30K miles on it... so they sent me a letter acknowledging the problem, acknowledging the miles it takes to observe the problem, but within an unreasonable time frame for an owner to actually get to the amount of miles on the engine for the problem to become apparent, and now here I sit with a $5K quote for a fix that they told me I needed 4 years ago when I was well under warranty.

The service rep and his manager came out and gave me an 800 number for Ford customer satisfaction, they said I should call and explain my situation and see if Ford will help cover the cost even though it is out of warranty, I asked why not they call on my behalf? so they did, and two days later I got a call from them explaining Ford agreed to cover "half" of the cost. The funny thing is that "my half" of the original $5K cost per the dealer's original quote is now only $1,600.

So while it is still irritating that I have to pay anything, it's better than full cost.

Hoping this info might help someone.

 

[Shutterbug57]

removed

 

[Shutterbug57]

"The Ford dealer tried to put the OLD part number in, which was ML3Z-6256-A 1X.
Upon further research, I found the new replacement Cam Phasers, which was ML3Z-6C525-A 1X."

My CPs went out at 37K miles in 2021. They got replaced with the new part. Now, at 83K miles, they are out again. Looking for a new truck, probably a RAM.

 

[5280tunage]

@Shutterbug57 this is what bugs me, so sorry you're dealing with this again. I don't understand how this hasn't turned into some kind of 10yr or lifetime replacement thing. If there isn't a fix, i.e. everyone, even on here, said make sure your CP replacement is with the "new" parts, but unless there are new, new, and new parts, there is no permanent fix. I realize the NHTSA is mostly dedicated to only "safety" issues but to me things like this start to get there. failing mechanical parts that require incredibly invasive repairs, for the life of a vehicle? some folks on here are 3 - 4 CP replacements in.