2020 post drivetrain warranty (63k miles) transmission shift issues - options?

[allaneyre]

All,

I have a 2020 Expedition XLT. In the past I've occasionally experienced the rough shift and two or three times we had the 'bang' that seemed to come with a large downshift (with the warning lights that went away after re-start, etc.). This is my wife's car, and I only noticed it when I drove it or when I drove it while towing our travel trailer.

I had taken it into the shop at ~45k miles for the issue, where they did the adaptive re-learn drive cycle (cleared the tables, etc.) which seemed to resolve it at the time.

However, apparently the car began experiencing similar issues again as we approached the 60k mile drivetrain warranty. We've had a lot going on, so getting it into the shop to get it on record that it was happening again was not a priority at the time. Now that we're past the warranty mileage, the issue has gotten significantly worse with the car experiencing delayed shifting up from 1-3, 3-5, and 5-7 gear shifts (skipping even gears as normal). It usually experiences this mostly when the trans is cold, and got mostly worse as it got colder up here in NH starting in the fall. I have not experienced the Neutral-out issue (TSB 23-2249).

After taking it in to the dealer (I also had a catalytic converter trouble code thrown, and that's under warranty still), they took a look and said that its likely the CDF cylinder sleeve (drum) issue from TSB 24-2101 (24-2046, 23-2350). They quoted me $9k to replace the transmission. They didn't give me any other options given I'm out of warranty and it'd been so long since it was in for a similar issue (basically said I'm SOL and they can't do anything).

Do I have any other options in this instance via the dealer/Ford? I did not get any kind of extended warranty on this SUV. It doesn't look like they're doing any kind of customer service campaign even though there are hundreds of reports on this on NHTSA, this forum, etc. for this and similar transmission issues.

This is my second Ford with a transmission issue due to factory defects (I had the privilege of owning a '13 Ford Focus with the DCT issues until it was luckily put out of its misery due to being hit by another car during Covid (got full-market value+ for it at the time)).

I know that I can go to another shop, and I am getting that priced out for a re-build of the existing. Getting a used/re-built transmission seems like it could be hit-or-miss as to whether or not the CDF sleeve has been replaced with the re-designed unit.

Anyone have a comparison prices from an independent shop for an overhaul/replace of the CDF sleeve?

Thanks!

 

[ms136]

I'm experiencing similar issues on a 2020 with 69,000 miles. My dealer offered the option of rebuilding with the updated CDF Drum for $7000 or $9000 for the Ford reman which would have far more internals renewed and 36mo unlimited mileage warranty vs 24mo. I have chosen the $9000 option. Its a hard pill either way.

 

[allaneyre]

I agree @ms136. I'm taking it to one shop and working on some priced options with another to see if the dealers price is reasonable or not. My dealer's tech said they don't bother re-building vs. putting in a new/reman. unit.

Has anyone had any luck contacting Ford after warranty and getting anywhere with some level of offer (e.g. Cover parts while the owner pays labor, etc.)? I was thinking of calling and pleading my case to see what, if anything, they may do.

 

[Going_Going_Gone]

I suggest that you insist on a full flush of your transmission cooler and lines; and, if possible, a (serviceable) in-line filter be installed in the return line from the transmission cooler. Another case of "better to have and not need it than to need and not have."

 

[BMW2FORD]

Another option is to get an entire trans with the torque converter from Ford. Check Ford.Part.com and enter your vin but search a few dealers since they do vary in price. Last I checked, the 10r80 transmissions these cars use were around $4k. That comes with a 2 year Warranty from Ford. There’s a core charge but you get that back upon returning the old one. Lots of people buy over the counter dealer transmissions and take them to independents or install themselves. Only thing I’d love an answer on is do the current over the counter transmissions have all the 10r80 parts such as the updated CDF drum and shell that the dealers are installing when rebuilding them.

 

[allaneyre]

So....

I took the Expy in to a few transmission shops. One very trusted local place up here in NH would do a full re-build, replacing the CDF and Valve Body, for $7500. He also offered up R&R with a new trans. for ~$8750. The other place I took it to said that given the issues he found during research and the cost differential, he wouldn't re-build and suggested installing a new or re-man transmission. $8250 or $8750 (re-man/new). Both looked up used trans. prices, but they were all high-mileage and expensive. And given the issues, they both recommended that wouldn't be the way to go.

On a whim, I did call Ford Customer service. I laid out my story, miles, etc. as well as my "history" with the Ford Focus DCT. They did offer that they may be willing to share costs under some level of "warranty" coverage extension, etc. Only catch is that I'll have to take it back to the dealer for them to tear down the trans. and show/document/confirm the failure, etc. for their Ford SME. So, between that and the likely wait for Ford to confirm some level of support, and the final install... I might be out of a car for 2-4 weeks. Not sure anyone is going to cover a courtesy car/rental... However, if they cover 30-40% of the cost of a new trans... that would likely be worth it even if I have to rent a car for a bit.

BTW... I did look up the transmission part#/price (I'm in NH, if they're $4k somewhere, where is that!).

Electronic Automatic Gearshift - 4WD (Part Time Drive).
Part #: JL1Z7000F / JL1Z7000BRM (reman)
5,623.75 / 5,248.75

Dealer quoted me:
- $6,000 for the trans.,
- $199/hr in Labor @ 14 hrs. $2,786,

So may have to haggle a bit on their mark-up costs vs. pricing from dealer web sites! But given the quotes from the independent shops in the area, they're about equal for a full R&R.

 

[LegalBrief]

I don’t understand you just got Ford to pay for a junk of your transmission, do the dance, be happy and make an appointment. That repair will have a warranty.

 

[allaneyre]

I don’t understand you just got Ford to pay for a junk of your transmission, do the dance, be happy and make an appointment. That repair will have a warranty.

Yup, I'm going to (as implied by my last sentence, but I realize that wasn't super clear).

I was just using the post to work through what I'd done and help make my decision while laying out some info for others who have the same issue. As I was implying in my post, the only issue is time to repair, cost of the rental, and the fact that I do NOT know how much Ford will cover (30-40% numbers were "possible" examples they gave me, all verbally conditioned over the phone with "when we get the details of the failure"). They don't tell you any of the coverage details until AFTER they've gotten the full/clarified diagnosis from the dealer. Also, unless Ford confirms coverage to the dealer, I'm responsible for the teardown costs (~3-4 hours @ $199/hr).

Time, Rental costs, and teardown costs are all things that I could apply to just doing the trans at an independent shop.

All of that detail aside... yes... given the long-standing issues, suspect diagnosis from the dealer, and everything else... its highly likely I'll get some level of support from the dealer that will still work out in my favor financially. So, that will be the way I go.

Appointment is scheduled for Monday the 6th to start the process...

 

[SyndicateZ]

Funny how the dealer can now easily say its the CDF drum now that its past its warranty. They say (and will do) anything in their power not to perform warranty work! But once your out of warranty they can not even look at the thing and know whats wrong because they know this is a common issue that only a updated part will resolve.

Were u at Salem Ford?

 

[allaneyre]

Were u at Salem Ford?

Yeah. Bought it at Hillsboro, my old Focus at Londonderry. Hillsboro is too far away (I live East of 93), But I've had the best service from Salem.

Funny how the dealer can now easily say its the CDF drum now that its past its warranty. They say (and will do) anything in their power not to perform warranty work! But once your out of warranty they can not even look at the thing and know whats wrong because they know this is a common issue that only a updated part will resolve.

Isn't it!?!? lol.

 

[SyndicateZ]

Yeah. Bought it at Hillsboro, my old Focus at Londonderry. Hillsboro is too far away (I live East of 93), But I've had the best service from Salem.



Isn't it!?!? lol.

My 2019 was purchased new at Salem Ford in NH. Very nice dealer. Its in MA now

 

[Mr Big]

Contact Ford Corporate Customer Complaints. They will assign you a liaison. My issue was resolved and even my $100 deductible was refunded. My Son had an issue with his door handle that was out of warranty by 1 month. The dealership charged him $475.00. He followed the same procedure and was refunded all but the $70.00 parts.

 

[Calidad]

Funny how the dealer can now easily say its the CDF drum now that its past its warranty. They say (and will do) anything in their power not to perform warranty work! But once your out of warranty they can not even look at the thing and know whats wrong because they know this is a common issue that only a updated part will resolve.

Were u at Salem Ford?

By the way regardless of brand you need to make sure the dealer logs your first transmission inspection and visit with its issues. All warranty issues seen before the warranty expires should be covered by the warranty. Meaning!!! Transmission clearly had issues at say 57,000 miles but dealer lacked resources or motivation to address it then. Now its out of warranty snd broken because it wasn’t addressed earlier under warranty… Ford is basically kinda half assed covering their own ass because your transmission likely should have been done under warranty prior to its out of warranty failure.

 

[SyndicateZ]

By the way regardless of brand you need to make sure the dealer logs your first transmission inspection and visit with its issues. All warranty issues seen before the warranty expires should be covered by the warranty. Meaning!!! Transmission clearly had issues at say 57,000 miles but dealer lacked resources or motivation to address it then. Now its out of warranty snd broken because it wasn’t addressed earlier under warranty… Ford is basically kinda half assed covering their own ass because your transmission likely should have been done under warranty prior to its out of warranty failure.

This ^

A paper trail showing the concern and the lack of Ford help can easily win a court case if needed

 

[allaneyre]

To close out on this.... I did call Ford Customer Care. In the end... Ford offered a 50/50 split of the warranty repair cost ($10,800)... or the equivalent of a 60/40 split if it was customer pay costs ($9,000). Even with the extra steps of the dealer confirming the issue with Ford (had to tear down the trans and pull the CDF Drum), getting cost/offer approvals, etc... it took only 2 weeks once my car was dropped off from start to finish.

Ford is also re-imbursing me the 2 weeks rental on a Ford vehicle from Avis (Note, they said Avis was covered @ $40/day... other companies up to $60/day). I have a corporate rate with Avis, so I was able to make the $40/day limit work with my rental. They did say I needed to rent a Ford vehicle... in case you're wondering what hoops you may have to go through with the rental. No courtesy vehicles were available at the dealer... at least that's what they said.

I agree with the last posts about taking your car to the dealer and documenting the issues at first observation within warranty mileage. I wish I had done it more and/or more recently. It is somewhat my fault as I was aware an issue was brewing and of the general problem because of posts on this board... but waited until the trans. started slipping between shifts and hard shifting in the cold weather this fall, when I was just past the powertrain mileage.

While not happy about having to pay $5,400 for a new tranny at 63k miles.... I'm at least happy it wasn't the full $9k. Lesson learned... take it in early, buy the extended warranty on high priced vehicles, call Ford Customer Care and request they help cover costs of repairs...

Also... I may think twice (or 3 times) about getting another Ford... second car in a row with trans. issues (I had a '13 Focus as well, damn DCT)

 

[Calidad]

To close out on this.... I did call Ford Customer Care. In the end... Ford offered a 50/50 split of the warranty repair cost ($10,800)... or the equivalent of a 60/40 split if it was customer pay costs ($9,000). Even with the extra steps of the dealer confirming the issue with Ford (had to tear down the trans and pull the CDF Drum), getting cost/offer approvals, etc... it took only 2 weeks once my car was dropped off from start to finish.

Ford is also re-imbursing me the 2 weeks rental on a Ford vehicle from Avis (Note, they said Avis was covered @ $40/day... other companies up to $60/day). I have a corporate rate with Avis, so I was able to make the $40/day limit work with my rental. They did say I needed to rent a Ford vehicle... in case you're wondering what hoops you may have to go through with the rental. No courtesy vehicles were available at the dealer... at least that's what they said.

I agree with the last posts about taking your car to the dealer and documenting the issues at first observation within warranty mileage. I wish I had done it more and/or more recently. It is somewhat my fault as I was aware an issue was brewing and of the general problem because of posts on this board... but waited until the trans. started slipping between shifts and hard shifting in the cold weather this fall, when I was just past the powertrain mileage.

While not happy about having to pay $5,400 for a new tranny at 63k miles.... I'm at least happy it wasn't the full $9k. Lesson learned... take it in early, buy the extended warranty on high priced vehicles, call Ford Customer Care and request they help cover costs of repairs...

Also... I may think twice (or 3 times) about getting another Ford... second car in a row with trans. issues (I had a '13 Focus as well, damn DCT)

Have a Ford toyota Fusion Energi it’s been awesome. 15yr old is getting it soon. Wife is getting plugin/hybrid Lincoln next.
Our 19 Expedition 75,000 has been great. The 10spd gets a little gear confused occasionally maybe once every 6000 ish miles but otherwise ok. Started towing a heavy boat 2x a yr recently no issues. 150,000 mile warranty . It replaced a 2007 Sequoia. Absolutely the Ex is superior to the old Sequoia which was far superior to the new nearly useless sequoia. Plus neither Sequoia’s would tow our boat. I’ll probably get another Expedition when this one hits 10-12yrs of age. Its been a great rig for hauling HS team, family, scouts the boat etc.

 

[kierobi]

Hi!

Running into the same issue with the transmission and we've been told today that we need to either overhaul the CDF or replace the transmission. These are the two options that we've been given and the costs for each are $4200 and $7200.

As I'm reading more and more that this is a well known and documented issue, I'm inclined to try and fight it and get Ford to at least pay something towards the repair costs. Would you happen to have the Service number that you called so that I can try and take it up with them?

Really disappointed in this and compounding the problems now as I've bought a 2020 F150 with the same transmission in it and think I'm going to run into those same issues with that now...

 

[allaneyre]

Would you happen to have the Service number that you called so that I can try and take it up with them?

(800) 392-3673, Ford Customer Service.

That said, the prices you were quoted seem either very low or very reasonable. Not sure which. Almost everyone out-of-warranty is being quoted $9k for a transmission replacement if you're paying.

If Ford is paying, its ~$10,800 and they'll cover some percentage of that (in my case, 50%).

I would not go for the CDF drum replacement. There were 2 or 3 other recalls on the transmission, and/or valve body. They also replaced my transmission cooler as part of the full replacement.

 

[Nealg]

Hi, I have a 2020 Limited I bought used a year ago, now has 40K mi. Also have used Salem Ford for parts as I live 15 minutes from there. My trans mostly works fine but has "harder than it should be" shifting (I can't tell between which gears, but it's the same 2 every time). I've been following these threads and anticipate trouble down the road. I asked them about it last time I was in and they recommended the "re-learn" option as a start, but I think it was $200 or so and I haven't done that yet. From what I read, its only temporary anyway. I'm under the mileage but past the 5-year mark, so I assume I have no warranty claim? Anyway, just curious how you made out?

 

[Hellwig]

Hi, I have a 2020 Limited I bought used a year ago, now has 40K mi. Also have used Salem Ford for parts as I live 15 minutes from there. My trans mostly works fine but has "harder than it should be" shifting (I can't tell between which gears, but it's the same 2 every time). I've been following these threads and anticipate trouble down the road. I asked them about it last time I was in and they recommended the "re-learn" option as a start, but I think it was $200 or so and I haven't done that yet. From what I read, its only temporary anyway. I'm under the mileage but past the 5-year mark, so I assume I have no warranty claim? Anyway, just curious how you made out?

Purchase a scanner and download Forscan app. You can make the transmission relearn yourself. But, to my personal experience, it will not resolve the rough shifting issue.