5.4 3v rough idle, dies, multiple codes

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akorcovelos

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Just under 3k miles ago I replaced the entire timing system, cam sensors, VVT solonoids, plugs, oil pump, water pump, and one coil on our '06 Expedetion. Changed oil with proper Motocraft oil and filter.

Tonight my Wife calls telling me its running really rough, flashing CEL, and dies at stops. She said it was cutting in/out where it would run fine for a couple minutes then start crapping out again. I'm having it towed home now...

I just happened to have left my code reader in the truck so I have her pull the codes. P0011, P0022, P0171, P0305, and P2198. Looks like a both cams are throwing codes, and an o2 sensor, and misfire on cyl 5.

Am I seriously looking at more cam phaser issues on parts that have less than 3k miles on them? The fact it's throwing both sides seems odd. Not sure what else would cause this considering I replaced every common trouble component on the engine...

She just filled up the tank, maybe bad gas? I didn't change the fuel filter, maybe thats clogged, though not sure why that would cause cam codes. Same with the fuel pump failing, why would that cause cam codes? I just don't believe both phasers crapped at the same time.
 
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akorcovelos

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update:
Now that I have the truck I can feel it's missing on multiple cylinders, and the CEL starts flashing almost immediately. I cleared the codes listed earlier and messed with it in the driveway for a bit, then rechecked. 5 codes, but now they are all missfire codes, no cam codes. The timing system is quiet as a mouse, no ticks or rattles, or chain slapping at all.

Would a bad o2 cause this?

MAF issue? I can see the PO probed the MAF wires at some point, maybe for this reason.

So, to sum up the night, engine runs really rough, wants to die at idle, flashing CEL, throwing a billion codes that make no sense to me. I didn't have much time to dig into it being dark and 20* tonight. Might be mid week before I can do any more diagnostics.
 

Skauber

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Did you use OEM parts when you did the phasers? Or Dorman parts? And did you replace the VCT solenoids at the same time? Is it possible that it jumped a tooth on one side perhaps?
 
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akorcovelos

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Parts were aftermarket, not sure if Dorman or not. VCT solenoids were replaced as well. No way it jumped a tooth, brand new chains, tensioners, guides, phasers, and cam sprocket. There was no play on the chains at all and timing was perfect. Before I did the timing it was loud, ticking, rattling, now even when it's stumbling and misfiring it's so quiet you can hear the injectors ticking.

Ran like a dream for 3k miles then like a light switch it started doing this. I could maybe believe if a single phaser failed, but for both to go at the exact same time makes me think this is likely a sensor, fuel related, or something electrical.

Would a bad MAF cause symptoms like this?
 

Lostneye

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Did you use OEM parts when you did the phasers? Or Dorman parts? And did you replace the VCT solenoids at the same time? Is it possible that it jumped a tooth on one side perhaps?

This...

More likely timing issues than O2s, MAF or COPs. I wouldn't chase the misfire code until the other issue is fully diagnosed/fixed. Sometimes the boots/connectors are marginal and disturbing them for a plug change can result in a failure soon after. Did you change the boots/connectors with the plug change? But one bad COP/boot/connector shouldn't give you timing or O2 codes.
 

Skauber

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A bad MAF wouldn't cause cam codes, I've heard a lot about aftermarket timing parts not being reliable, specially the Dorman cam phasers. Over retarded on one side and over advanced on the other really sounds like either one phaser failed and the other one over-compensating for it, or that one side is out of timing. If you want to rule out the MAF, you can simply unplug it and start it, then it'll run on a fallback strategy for mixture. Might have lower power, but should run fine.
 

Lostneye

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I agree. I've heard of the Dorman phasers not being reliable as well and the symptoms see to still point towards timing components.
 
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akorcovelos

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Thanks for the feedback everyone. I think I may have found the problem. I'll post pics later today, but I found one of the top coolant lines on the passenger side had a pin hole in it, and was hosing the ECU and the big plug just under the ECU down. I believe this is causing some short that throwing all kinds codes. I fixed the leak, just need to let it all dry out and test drive it.

When I got home yesterday I started it and it ran perfect for about 5 min, then bam, started stumbling and wanting to die and flashing the CEL. I think thats the moment the thermostat opened up and pressurized that line. Only codes I can get it to throw now are misfire codes and the o2 code. Can't get the cam codes to come back.

I have seen some posts saying that plug had chaffed wires that would cause similar symptoms so I'm hoping this is the problem.

If a phaser failed or jumped timing I would think it would run bad all the time, no? It sure did when the old phaser was failing, then it threw the timing chain through the passenger side valve cover. It would idle rough, but once it got above 2000 rpm it would smooth out. Now it won't even get above 2k rpm in gear, just wants to die.
 
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Skauber

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If it runs fine when cold, then it has not jumped timing. Water + PCM is not a good thing and will lead to many weird codes and drivability issues, so fix that first and see what it does after. It's still not impossible that a phaser is going, I think they remain locked in starting position until the engine reaches a certain temperature and the PCM is starting to vary timing through the VCT solenoids which then unlocks the phasers. If one has failed, then it may work fine when locked but when it's unlocked it'll fall to either fully retarded or advanced and then throw a code. Either way, get the PCM dried up and see what it does when that is OK.
 

Bedrck47

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The following was copied from the service manual. I have included some information on other codes as needed and as suggested from the codes you listed See code P2198/P2195 one of the causes is camshaft timing.. I would correct that problem as it may correct the O2 sensor problem


P0011 - Intake Camshaft Position Timing - Over-Advanced (Bank 1)
Description: The powertrain control module (PCM) monitors the variable camshaft timing (VCT) position for an over-advanced camshaft timing. The test fails when the camshaft timing exceeds a maximum calibrated value or remains in an advanced position.
Possible Causes: Camshaft timing improperly set
Continuous oil flow to the VCT piston chamber
VCT solenoid valve stuck open
Camshaft advance mechanism binding (VCT unit)

Diagnostic Aids: This DTC is a functional check of the VCT unit. Diagnose any base engine concerns related to the engine oil pressure or engine timing. Refer to the Workshop Manual Section 303-00, Engine System.
Application Key On Engine Off Key On Engine Running Continuous Memory
All — GO to Pinpoint Test HK . GO to Pinpoint Test HK .

P0012 - Intake Camshaft Position Timing - Over-Retarded (Bank 1)
Description: The powertrain control module (PCM) monitors the variable camshaft timing (VCT) position for over-retarded camshaft timing. The test fails when the camshaft timing exceeds a maximum calibrated value or remains in a retarded position.
Possible Causes: Camshaft timing improperly set
Continuous oil flow to the VCT piston chamber
VCT solenoid valve stuck open
Camshaft advance mechanism binding (VCT unit)

Diagnostic Aids: This DTC is a functional check of the VCT unit. Diagnose any base engine concerns related to the engine oil pressure or engine timing. Refer to the Workshop Manual Section 303-00, Engine System.

P0021 - Intake Camshaft Position Timing - Over-Advanced (Bank 2)
Description: See the description for DTC P0011.
Possible Causes: See the possible causes for DTC P0011.
Diagnostic Aids: See the diagnostic aids for DTC P0011.

P0022 - Intake Camshaft Position Timing - Over-Retarded (Bank 2)
Description: See the description for DTC P0012.
Possible Causes: See the possible causes for DTC P0012.
Diagnostic Aids: See the diagnostic aids for DTC P0012.

P0171 - System Too Lean (Bank 1)
Description: The adaptive fuel strategy continuously monitors the fuel delivery hardware. The test fails when the adaptive fuel tables reach a rich calibrated limit. Refer to Section 1, Powertrain Control Software Fuel Trim for more information.
Possible Causes: Fuel System:
Damaged or leaking fuel pulse damper
Fuel filter plugged or dirty
Damaged or worn fuel pump
Leaking fuel pump check valve
Leaking/contaminated fuel injectors
Low fuel pressure or running out of fuel
EVAP canister purge valve is leaking when the canister is clean
Fuel supply line restricted
Fuel rail pressure sensor bias
Air Induction System:
Air leaks after the mass air flow (MAF) sensor
Vacuum leaks
PCV system is leaking or the valve is stuck open
Improperly seated engine oil dipstick
Exhaust System:
Exhaust leaks in the exhaust manifold gasket or mating gaskets before or near the HO2S
EGR System:
Vacuum hose disconnected on exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system module (ESM) applications
EGR valve tube/gasket leak
EVR solenoid vacuum leak
Secondary Air Injection:
Damaged secondary air injection system or a mechanically stuck valve
Air Measurement System:
Damaged or contaminated MAF sensor

Diagnostic Aids: View freeze frame data to determine the operating conditions when the DTC was set. Observe the LONGFT1 and LONGFT2 PIDs. Refer to Section 2, Adaptive Fuel DTC Diagnostic Techniques for more information.
Application Key On Engine Off Key On Engine Running

P030x - Cylinder x Misfire Detected
Description: NOTE: x represents cylinder number 1 through 9.
The misfire detection monitor is designed to monitor engine misfire and identify the specific cylinder in which the misfire has occurred. Misfire is defined as lack of combustion in a cylinder due to absence of spark, poor fuel metering, poor compression, or any other cause.
Possible Causes: Ignition system
Fuel injectors
Running out of fuel
EVAP canister purge valve
Fuel pressure
Evaporative emission system
EGR system
Base engine

Diagnostic Aids: The malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) blinks once per second when a misfire severe enough to cause catalyst damage is detected. If the MIL is on steady state due to a misfire, this indicates the threshold for emissions was exceeded and caused the vehicle to fail an inspection and maintenance tailpipe test.

P2198 - O2 Sensor Signal Biased/Stuck Rich - Bank 2, Sensor 1
Description: See the description for DTC P2196.
Possible Causes: See the possible causes for DTC P2195.
Diagnostic Aids:

P2195 - O2 Sensor Signal Biased/Stuck Lean - Bank 1, Sensor 1
Description: A heated oxygen sensor (HO2S) indicating lean at the end of a test is trying to correct for an over-rich condition. The test fails when the fuel control system no longer detects switching for a calibrated amount of time.
Possible Causes: Electrical:
Short to VPWR in the harness or HO2S
Water in the harness connector
Open/shorted HO2S circuit
Corrosion or incorrect harness connections
Damaged HO2S
Damaged powertrain control module (PCM)
Fuel System:
Excessive fuel pressure
Leaking/contaminated fuel injectors
Leaking fuel pressure regulator
Low fuel pressure or running out of fuel
Vapor recovery system
Induction System:
Air leaks after the mass air flow (MAF) sensor
Vacuum leaks
PCV system
Improperly seated engine oil dipstick
EGR System:
Leaking gasket
Stuck EGR valve
Leaking diaphragm or EVR
Base Engine:
Oil overfill
Camshaft timing
Cylinder compression
Exhaust leaks before or near the HO2S(s)
 
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