G213
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Good info, thanks! Have you ever had experience with or tried Duracool? I've read that it about as good as R12 and is compatible with R134a oils. I know it's more flammable and such but again, just curious.
A/C Z134A vs. R134A
- Thread starter HawkX66
- Start date
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Yes I have a case or so here now.
Almost all of those regardless of name are HC blends. Hydrocarbon blends.
They are a real hush hush kind or gray area don't ask don't tell thing.
They barely get by with legally selling them and the safety freaks don't help matters any.
You can buy them for cars and for houses...like HC22.
Rural King sold some 30 lb (or equivalent) jugs a couple of years ago and probably still do.
They are compatible with PAG oil or 134a and will lower duct temp.
I got 8-10 degrees on same day in exact same conditions after swapping one over back in 2008.
I can't say what the real world long term durability for compressor is and if if it does leak any and gets low, due to being blend and leaking at different percentages etc, you are supposed to evacuate and recharge. You also charge as a liquid only! (as far as I know)
With compressor quality nowadays (or lack thereof) I don't really think it matters.
The fear mongering (and yes I've seem the Porsche video that catches on fire) of a leak going to burst into flames is WAY overplayed.
Cars do burst into all the time! But the percentage is super low. There are a lot of cars in the world!!
Gasoline leaks cause a lot if not most of these fires...and ones that are not "started" by gas leak are often electrical or at first massive overheating which either causes wires to melt and catch fire or melts fuel lines (gotta love those plastic flexible quick connects they have under hood) and then the gas is what really flames!
AC refrigerant leaks are s-l-o-w. Any leak that is faster than that will be all gone in less than 3 days so there will be none left to be flammable.
I have an 05 Saab now that leaks out in two days. Filled it once to see and haven't bothered since.
Here's the dealbreaker for most. They are usually a butane propane mix or isobutane propane mix. ---hear the gasps now....
Now remember the new z1234 or whatever it's called is also flammable.
R134a wasn't considered flammable but new is so I don't know to what degree we are talking but it is more since it IS flammable.
So much so that I think it's Mercedes that for now is refusing to use it and I read they cite flammability possibility.
So you really have nothing to lose but some time and a few bucks if you want to try a HC replacement. I definitely got colder vent temps on a challenged system.
Do a search for drop in replacements.
I think even Johnson had one but not HC. I think there were/are some azeotropic blends of different refrigerants that give better results than r134a.
I did a quick search and I can see the internet has been taken over by the 1234YF BEING the drop in for R134a . NOT!!
There were other "drop ins" before this was made up.
Enviro- Safe HC Blend came up a little into it. I think that was the exact brand I used on the one above but I have used Duracool too.
I found info on R152A and it looks promising.
There were other "drop ins" before this was made up.
Enviro- Safe HC Blend came up a little into it. I think that was the exact brand I used on the one above but I have used Duracool too.
I found info on R152A and it looks promising.
Just came up from the rabbit hole for air....
I have decided to put pure gas grill propane in the next one I test.
They say it is better colder than R134 and that's what I want to see.
Charge as a liquid and shouldn't be too hard to rig and adapter to old my gauge set which is already on old R-12 set with R-134a adapter hoses with cut off valves.
I have decided to put pure gas grill propane in the next one I test.
They say it is better colder than R134 and that's what I want to see.
Charge as a liquid and shouldn't be too hard to rig and adapter to old my gauge set which is already on old R-12 set with R-134a adapter hoses with cut off valves.
Back before I cared about blowing myself up I did some experimenting, as well as some research.
DISCLAMER DO NOT DO THIS!!!! This is for informational purposes only.
My 92 Cherokee was R12, R134a didn't work for crap in it so I tried some things. I will try to keep it short.
The 134a in my jeep had extremely high pressure and never cooled worth a damn, I'm talking 75° vent temps at best on a 100° day. The reason being is the condenser and evaporator design were never meant to be used with R134a which is a much less efficient refrigerant.
I got tired of it so I recovered my 134a and pulled a vacuum. I then refilled it with propane. Yes propane from a green camping cylinder, with an adapter I built. I refilled it by weight, just a little less than what it called for R12 wise. There is a calculation to compare R12 and propane, the propane is a slightly bigger more compressible gas than R12 from what I remember, so you used a little less.
I ran around with that in my system for about 6 months during the summer months. It worked GREAT!!!! My vent temps on a 100° day were right around 40°. The pressure were MUCH lower, my fuel economy increased, and I had a noticeable performance boost because the propane is easier to compress. But the pressure can get way out of control, that's why it's stored in heavy steel cylinders. You should really use a propane/isobutan mix, but I didn't.
Fast forward This was only ever an experiment and I did not like running around with explosive gas in my AC. This was only ever to prove that the 134a was the issue.
There are some people that do it in other countries but I didn't care for it long term.
After a bit too much research I found R152a (difluoroethane). . . This refrigerant has almost identical properties to R12. . . and the best part is its SUPER cheap! And even better its completely legal to vent to atmosphere! I paid $8 for 2 cans.
I drained the system and flushed it with some AC flush, installed new seals and parts. I pulled a good long vacuum to make sure that the system was as good as it could be. I refilled the system by weight. The pressures were good, and the performance was GREAT!
This is what I get into at the end of the day.
This is 5 minutes down the road with 152a in my clapped out Jeep. Sometimes it would drop below 40°, it was GREAT!
And the Jeep in question. A year of heavy use and it still worked great till the day I sold it.
DISCLAMER DO NOT DO THIS!!!! This is for informational purposes only.
My 92 Cherokee was R12, R134a didn't work for crap in it so I tried some things. I will try to keep it short.
The 134a in my jeep had extremely high pressure and never cooled worth a damn, I'm talking 75° vent temps at best on a 100° day. The reason being is the condenser and evaporator design were never meant to be used with R134a which is a much less efficient refrigerant.
I got tired of it so I recovered my 134a and pulled a vacuum. I then refilled it with propane. Yes propane from a green camping cylinder, with an adapter I built. I refilled it by weight, just a little less than what it called for R12 wise. There is a calculation to compare R12 and propane, the propane is a slightly bigger more compressible gas than R12 from what I remember, so you used a little less.
I ran around with that in my system for about 6 months during the summer months. It worked GREAT!!!! My vent temps on a 100° day were right around 40°. The pressure were MUCH lower, my fuel economy increased, and I had a noticeable performance boost because the propane is easier to compress. But the pressure can get way out of control, that's why it's stored in heavy steel cylinders. You should really use a propane/isobutan mix, but I didn't.
Fast forward This was only ever an experiment and I did not like running around with explosive gas in my AC. This was only ever to prove that the 134a was the issue.
There are some people that do it in other countries but I didn't care for it long term.
After a bit too much research I found R152a (difluoroethane). . . This refrigerant has almost identical properties to R12. . . and the best part is its SUPER cheap! And even better its completely legal to vent to atmosphere! I paid $8 for 2 cans.
I drained the system and flushed it with some AC flush, installed new seals and parts. I pulled a good long vacuum to make sure that the system was as good as it could be. I refilled the system by weight. The pressures were good, and the performance was GREAT!
This is what I get into at the end of the day.
This is 5 minutes down the road with 152a in my clapped out Jeep. Sometimes it would drop below 40°, it was GREAT!
And the Jeep in question. A year of heavy use and it still worked great till the day I sold it.
Last edited:
mquick5
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I've had the better part of a 20lb jug of r12 collecting dust in my garage for over 20 yrs! 
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