An Expedition... What a fitting name! Pro help?

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LEOL

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Sorry for the extremely long post, but I’m hoping maybe one of you is a professional Technician, so this is more than just a diagnostic log... I’ll try to skip as much unnecessary chatter as possible.


Recently bought from shady used car dealer. 06' expedition KR 5.4/3v 172,200 miles. And what an expedition this has turned out to be,...


Upon buying it, it had a bit of a tick to it, but pretty obviously sounded like the injectors. At the time, I was semi confident that it at least wasn’t a head leak or major internal damage and I was ok with a worthwhile project so I wasn’t really concerned whether it was the phasers or not since that was something “do-able”. The dealer replaced the ****** battery, and told me it had an O2 code that had been reset, which I already knew because I almost always have my Bluetooth OBD adapter with me. (Literally the best 15$ I’ve ever spent). I figured at 172000 miles an O2 sensor was an acceptable issue with a hopeful low risk factor on it being just a worn sensor and nothing deeper rooted.


1. Replaced the bank 2 downstream O2 sensor, and I don’t usually like throwing parts at things, but just for kicks I replaced the bank 1 (the loudest bank) VCT solenoid figuring 30 bucks was worth seeing if the TSB on that issue was relevant. The cold-start tick/knock could still be related, but it was not the solenoid.


Less than 500 miles later and out of state, I get a random P0307. Couldn’t do anything about it until I got the vehicle home to do some diagnosing. Long story short, during that trip and from that point on, the following occurred, chronologically as listed.


2. Noticed a shudder in the 1500-1900rpm range, specifically while at higher speeds and when in park. It mostly felt more like a vibration than a real “miss”, but could tell it was engine shudder and not just a loose heat shield or skidplate.


3. Along with a noticeable power loss, also had separately, randomly, and each under slightly varying conditions gotten a blinking and then solid P0302, and later a P0305. Ran a tank of injector cleaner through it during this time period on the way back to New Mexico.


4. Skipped any initial diagnosing at this point and just replaced all plugs and coils, Because I intended to do it regardless. During plug replacement, the #2 was broke as ****…. More like melted or exploded?… I couldn’t tell. (See pictures below).
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5. Rented a borescope, to try to get a look in the cylinder… autozone borescopes are next to useless so I couldn’t get any good visual beyond half of the top of the piston. Which had a little carbon on it, but what I could see didn’t seem to have any visible damage from floating sparkplug bits. It’s possible but I find it unlikely, that there is zero damage.


6. Disconnected all the injectors and dry-cranked for a bit in hopes of vacating any debris that might still be in the cylinder, and for lack of being able to do anything else… reassembled with all new plugs and coils.


7. Did a chemical combustion leak test (coolant) which showed negative for combustion gas.


8. Upon first startup it ran like dogshit, and threw a P0357. At first I wanted to chalk it up to not depressurizing the fuel pump when I dry-cranked it… or maybe the pcm being disconnected, but the p0357 threw me.


9. immediately Swapped the #7 and #1 COP’s, and just for good measure I disconnected and blew out (compressed air) PCM connectors as well as all coil and F/I plugs. After which, it started up and ran well (as well as it was running before anyway) and hasn’t thrown anymore misfire codes since.


Despite some improvement, still had that shudder in the 1500-1900rpm range, and now being concerned with the possibility of damaged valves, blown head gasket, or worse block damage because of the #2 cylinder plug being Melt-o-licious (see pics)… time to run more diagnostics


10. Tested CAT's: Voltage check of O2 operation at OpTemp idle, through OBD2 (torque App) showed Voltage on downstream O2’s were fluctuating a lot along with the upstreams, and while the OBD reading indicated cat temp of 700-850 idling, an infrared thermometer externally showed 300-450+- both pre and post cats. Both tests indicate that the cats are probably shot. Presumably from whatever caused a sparkplug to explode.


11. Ohm Tested Injectors, Cold and warm. Despite my personal suspicion, all tested within specs. Cold, all were above 11 ohms, and warm all tested between 12.5-13 ohms. Spec is 11-18


12. Cleaned MAF and air filter, though both were already in pretty good condition.


13. Squirt test: squirting water around the intake manifold while running, to look for any obvious vacuum leakage on intake, looking for any sign of change in rpm. No obvious leaks were found.


14. Looking at OBD data on Torque app again…. Voltage on O2 sensors no longer fluctuating??!?! Maybe once or twice per minute, versus before it was a constant flux like the upstreams. Temp reading via obd says roughly 800 degrees at idle, increasing accordingly with rpm… maybe cats aren’t bad afterall??!?


15. Compression test: The cheap-azz tester I have didn’t have the right fitting, so had to use the rubber tip (pushdown) adapter to do a half-azzed compression test. Oddly, even trying to hold the stupid rubber tip gauge in each cylinder without actually sealing during cranking… and the engine mostly cooled down by now.. still I got between 150-160 across all 8 cylinders, which was surprising on many levels.


16. Vacuum test #1 showed the likelihood of valve issues… kinda!? First, note that I’m in Albuquerque at about 5200 feet altitude, so actual vacuum reading is 5+ off. Reading showed a steady 18Hg at idle, and proper responses to throttle snaps, BUT… long rpm holds showed a slow steady drop in vacuum, nearing about 3psi, and with some “clicking” (small occasional flickers). And then after a while it would just snap back up to operating range and then repeat. At first glance I gather this would indicate 1). The clicking/flickering would mean possible valve issues like burn, damage or seating. 2). The slow drop could be indicative of exhaust backpressure? Big… fat…, sad-face.


17. Replaced fuel filter, and performed a proper PCM reset. Both drivability and engine shudder didn’t go away, but DID improve noticeably.


18. Changed trans-filter, fluid, and flushed cooler lines (just blew them out with air). Pan and magnet was free of the typical metal/clutch material film, but plenty of crud came from the cooler lines. Fluid was crappy looking but didn’t smell burnt. The tip of the Trans dipstick is melted (see photo), so obviously at some point there was an epic tow/haul or something happened with the Trans… either way, I find it unlikely that a trans gets hot enough to melt the dipstick without causing some kind of damage along the way… but note that granted it is January, in the 100 miles of test driving that ive done by the end of this log, the trans never gets hotter than about 153F and even then only on the freeway for a while.
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19. Vibration: I knew either a skidplate or heatshield was loose cuz I could hear the rattle vibrations separate from all the other issues. While I was under it noticed the front skidplate was missing a bolt so went ahead and just temporarily removed the Skidplate altogether.

To elaborate on my description of "power loss" or "sluggish", delicate city driving is fine, but with moderate to heavy accelerator pedal, the response feels like there inst much torque behind the acceleration, maybe a slipping trans feeling?! this is particularly noticeable for instance when passing on the freeway, or flooring it in city driving and from past experience I'm betting would be VERY noticeable while trying to tow/haul anything.

Immediately Following event #17 above, the engine shudder still very vaguely exists, but very noticeably improved. Also showed drivability Improvement, presumably from resetting the PCM and relearning shiftpoints properly, which rose suspicion that the doggish response this all started with might equally involve possible transmission concerns as well as the engine issues.


Directly following event #18 above, again more noticeable Torque/drive Improvement afterwards showed that trans issues were definitely a factor in overall power loss, though I’m still not convinced it’s really driving at 100% of what it should be, even for 170000 miles and mindful that engine problems can affect trans operation, and vise-verse so…..??


After some overall improvement, in meantime I decided to investigate the cold startup tick/knock. Though timing chain/phaser issues could still be potential causes, I stethoscoped like half the vehicle, and it’s hard to tell noises apart with those loud azz injectors, as the ticking is similar and kind of masks other noises especially valve-train noise. Anyway, the timing cover just didn’t seem loud enough to be the sound I’m hunting for.


20. Crawling around underneath for other things I noticed the RH (passenger) side exhaust manifold clearly had a new gasket very recently done, and I also happened to shake the exhaust tailpipe tip around to check for exhaust System squeaks which can also give away lose flange joints… sure enough the muffler/catalyst flange joint was loose as hell… later I developed some conspiracy theories, but more on that later.


Then after listening to the video recording from under the vehicle by the cats, it was more noticeable that the naked ear that maybe there could be a slight exhaust leak!? Listening to cold startup again, so next on the list to do was an exhaust leak test.


21. Soap-test; Used a shopvac(exhaust port), a water bottle, and some duct tape, to pressurize from the tailpipe and a spray bottle of soapy water to check the manifolds for leaks and sure enough they were bubbling up like a shaken bottle of champagne.


22. Tightened Exhaust manifold bolts as best I could, which was actually probably over torque-spec anyway, and re-ran soaptest. Reduced the leaking, but couldn’t eliminate it. Also tightened up the cat/muff flange.


Following #18 to #22 the cold startup knock is possibly slightly better, but still prevalent. The midrange shudder is still vaguely present while parked and revving, but oddly though, it’s currently doesn’t seem to be present at high speeds like it was originally. The drivability also seems to have diminished again at this point, back to being kind of doggish in acceleration, and briefly there was a new weird shudder/vibration that seemed to only happen when you come to a stop quickly (something like 30 to zero with any more than slight braking). My first assumption is that by tightening the cat/muff flange up, the engine vibration is now amplified through the whole exhaust system… but that’s just a wild guess for now.


23. Re-ran vacuum test, which resulted in a steady reading this time with no dropping or flickering. And good response to throttle snaps, however still about 17-18Hg, (actual 22-23, as I’m at 5000ft altitude) possibly (and/or) some exhaust restriction from the (possibly bad) CAT’s??!? Either way, maybe there isn’t notable valve seating issues afterall??

24. Re analyzed the CAT’s. Via OBD, voltages still look somewhat acceptable (I’m using ForScan now instead of torque WAAAYYY better.) and I also tried to get an infrared thermometer temp on them externally, but I just can’t seem to get a consistent reading, so I’m concerned that my thermometer is a grossly inaccurate hunk of shit. Forscan data is showing a consistent temp of 400-800 at idle, and according temps to rpm increase. Though if the apps calculate temp by o2 voltage, those numbers could potentially be worthless?

25. Random test drive after sitting for about 3 days, City driving, only about 10 miles, nothing above 40-45-mph. Not much changed elsewhere but drivability (notably takeoff torque in first and maybe second gear) seems to be slightly more responsive, both cold, and at op.temp.

26. After randomly thinking about the fact oil filter was smaller than the motorcraft OE, and was some BS brand (purepro I think) I was unsure of whether it has proper specs like flow and drainback. It was way early for an oil change since the dealer did it when I bought it, and haven’t even put 2000miles on it yet, but I went ahead and just changed the infinitely over-tightened B.S. oil filter with a motorcraft OE filter, and topped off the oil loss (about a quart) with 5w30 instead of 5w20, because despite all the “internet engineer” arguments on the subject, I’ve seen people make claims (probably mostly coincidental) of solving or improving various issues, and a handful of arguments why you shouldn’t run 5w30 in a 5.4 3v, some of which seem like they have some logic to them… but fact is... I have yet to read anything anywhere, professional or otherwise, indicating that running 5w30 has actually caused anyone any actual problems… short OR long term. Especially in any case where there wasn’t some major underlying problem to begin with. Whether they incidentally or coincidentally cleared up various issues or not… I dunno… but I figure it might be worth a shot given the unfruitful diagnostics I’ve concluded so far.


After changing the oil filter, I let the vehicle cold soak overnight. (its January and I’m in Albuquerque, so it’s certainly not warm, but I actually live in Colorado… so it’s by no means cold here either) On first startup the next morning, the cold-start knock/tick seems to have reduced drastically. Whether this is due to a proper oil filter, a viscosity change (as significant or not as one quart might be), ambient temperature, or whether it’s simply “one of those days” that it didn’t seem as loud… I don’t know. Maybe a combination of the above?! I mean, whether accurate or not, logically in my head, between the very minor oil pressure difference of an OEM filter size/flow and the viscosity change, seems this scenario could indicate timing chain tensioners?? Though it is quieter, the tick/knock noise still exists. I’ll be very closely monitoring each startup over the next dozen or so.


All of this considered the only thing left is to do a leakdown test, which I’m currently unable to do for lack of a quality tester, and/or smoke test, which I as of right now find unnecessary, since all other test results, haven’t identified or really indicated an intake leak as very likely, but I will probably do one anyway because I’m ****. Logically, it doesn’t seem likely, but I suppose an internal head/gasket leak is still possible. I’m hoping like hell there isn’t any cylinder/block damage from that spark plug. I also personally have an uneducated theory that maybe the loud azz, funky old injectors could be randomly contributing to lean issues also?!?!... Particularly with the #2 plug-melt issue… I suppose an o-ring leak at the injector could cause a lean condition and ultimately melt shit if severe enough? Or… Possibly even a screwy azz PCM…?!?


After all this, now I’m more concerned that the trans/driveline may be largely responsible for the doggish/power loss and possibly even the shudder. Maybe the TC? Though, with the sparkplug fiasco, I can’t just dismiss the engine being the culprit…. My luck probably both?!

Maybe this thing is just a bigger abused steaming pile than I thought, and the problem is all of the above?! Or maybe I’m just overly paranoid because I have a little mechanical experience, but not enough experience to confidently diagnose this B.S. without physical evidence of something. This is why I’m not a professional tech… well that and lack of education.


My hands are in the air.

So… My power loss….. Trans? Engine? CAT’s? All of the above?

The fapping noise when the engine isn’t hot, (mostly bank 1) from just exhaust leaks? Valve issues? The timing? All of the above?

Could it all be as simple and lucky as there was a fluke that trashed the CAT’s and I can get away with replacing just the??? Regardless, I can’t in good conscience replace the CATS until I have a concrete answer as to what trashed them in the first place, and under the circumstances despite the various tests, they haven’t really concluded anything in my mind, as I can’t rule out any of the following possibilities:

FUBAR valvetrain issues (tests don’t really make this seem likely)

Jerky PCM (hard to really test this without complex equipment)

Random injector failure or leak (Loud, but they pass tests)

Timing/VCT/slacked chains (not really identifying timing components as source of noise, and in my logic if the chains were that slacked… it would probably be a continuously evident problem, but it’s possible)


Unfortunately I'm at a point where I'm completely unable to do anything additional, financially for the moment, and I’m really not in a position to tear it down just to diagnose it either. I mean the misfires can trash CAT’s, and misfires could have come from the coils, but where or how the f!!# did the exploded spark plug happen? It’s hard to think that with a nonfunctional sparkplug, there wouldn’t have been more DTC’s and noticeable problems in the miles that I drove the thing.


Any technicians out there that have any opinions or additional diagnostic input on this hot mess??
 
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LEOL

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Ran vacuum test again.... still showing about 17-18hg (22-23 due altitude) steady idle, but now a 2500rpm hold showed a slow steady drop to about 13hg (18 / altitude). ive tried to make sure my testing connections and procedure is consistent... so i dont know why my tests are back and forth with results... im also a little confused about the interpretation of these results. ill post an actual tread on compression testing though.

I also re-ran a compression test with an actual fitting... showed 160 across all cylinders, except #2 and #5. the #2 was 150, which according to alldata is definetly within 75% of the other cylinders and "acceptable". knowing that there could be some form of damage in that cylinder though, im not so sure. the #5 was also 150-155, still pretty darn good for 170k miles in my opinion.

as a side note i was concerned about my cheap harbor freight compression gague not being accurate, so i rented one from oreilly's... and tested them both with some fittings and the regulator on my air compressor... the harbor freight gauge was not only accurate, but actually held pressure in the valve once i tightened up the gauge fittings... unlike the junk thing i rented from the auto store.
 
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Skinnylarry

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Sounds like your torque converter has gone bad after such a long post it's only thing you didn't check and with power loss and shudder I would have tested that one sooner
 

The Swagonmaster

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Two easy tests that can be done: with a vacuum guage connected to manifold vacuum compare the vacuum reading at idle to the reading at 2000 rpm. What you should see is a drop in vacuum when the throttle is opened that will quickly come up to at least as high as the reading at idle. If you don'the see that there is an exhaust restriction, likely the cat.
The other test requires a scan tool that can give you the fuel trim. Again compare the reading at idle to that at 2000 rpm. If the short term fuel trim changes a lot you have an air leak (just like a cylinder miss, higher rpm will cover over a problem).
If you found any noticeable leaks in the exhaust they need to be corrected as any leak before the o2 sensors will cause them to lie.
 
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LEOL

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speaking of that plug, ive worked as a parts changer and maintenance tech, but ironically in all honesty i havent actually seen a ton of sparkplugs... does that look just melted to you? i couldnt really decipher whether it was "melted" or if it actually got damaged from physical interaction...or both?

as far as the torque converter.... yeah youre right i probably should have done that off the get go... but again, my diagnostic experience is on the limited side and i didnt think of it really. also, i know its kind of standard procedure, but as someone who is naturally inclined not to abuse my possessions, i always hated the idea of brake torques because of the damage you can cause if youre not careful. Are there any other methods to checking the condition of the torque converter??

and one more thing, i know a faulty TC can cause power loss at low speeds acceleration, but does it really affect as much, highway speeds and passing for instance? my current torque on takeoff isnt exactly where i feel it should be, but its much more noticeable on the freeway, especially when passing. i know passing is still acceleration, but my understanding is that its a different operation when already at higher operation?
 
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LEOL

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Torque tested the converter via brake torque procedure, my Results were slightly low at about 2000-21000 in all ranges.... given the circumstances id be inclined to believe that this is more evidence toward engine driveability than the torque converter/trans....?? though, its not to say it couldnt be both.


2.jpg
Clip from alldata
 
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