Expedition Dave
Full Access Members
SO, some of you have been following my long awaited (at least for me) lift/tire mods. I have PM'ed a lot of you who have done these mods/generated threads and posts, and I’d like to say a quick shout out to those who offered help, sent pictures, manuals, and have—to the best of my knowledge—pioneered almost all the internet has to offer on raising these trucks up and making them a bit more substantial than from the factory.
This is my experience, and not an endorsement or recommendation as there is a risk in these modifications to vehicle on-road safety and risk of damage negative affect to your warranty. Note: Bilstein absolutely DOES NOT ENDORSE using F150 shocks in an Expedition (they do endorse use of their 5100 Expy specific shocks). YMMV.
*Please note, the truck has not been cleaned so the tires and some suspension components have mounting grease on them—they are not from rubbing or suspensions strikes/road rash and sorry for the cruddy pics I wanted to get this out rather them glam it up!*
BILSTEIN 5100 SERIES Height Adjustable Shocks:
My stock 2020 FX4 HD Tow package Expedition with 20K in miles, empty, full tank no gear parked in a repeatable location, measured 36 inches ground to top of front fender, and 36.25 ground to rear top fender. I foolishly did not measure from the hub, but this made little actual difference because I had nearly exact tire dimensions when mounted so I was able to determine actual lift from tire lift. NOTE: The Nitto tires added a total of 1 inch in height (due to engine weight, 1.0 front, 1.1 rear to be exact—keep these in mind when I give my measurements as this extra inch from tire height is included))
Front:
Rear:
Shocks: My big debate was over the Bilstein 5100 series of shocks offered for both the Expedition (1.5-inch lift all around) and the F150s (3*inch front only, must use Expy in the rear). The F150s are a factory fit in Gen 4s (IDK if they work on other years) and at the factory "stock height (for an F150) are supposed to add 3* inches of lift to a Gen 4 Expedition. Notice the Asterix?
Expy Shocks on left (the shocks are shown ‘upside-down’ as the top portion in the pic is what is attached to the lower control arm):
The F150 front shocks come with a silver metal sleeve called the "Spring Seat Adapter" which the OEM spring seat sits on (holding the spring) once it is all back together. You can see it on the left shock (Expy shock)—which that shock DOES not come with by design. Note the shocks have C-Clips which fit into predetermined slots into the body of the shock, allowing you to adjust where the coil spring ultimately sits on the shock body. Moving this clip (prior to install) will raise you up/down the spectrum. These clips and slots appear quite sturdy and are probably more trustworthy than the perches on the stock FX4 shocks.
1st F150 Shock Attempt Day 1:
On Friday, I brought all of my kit to the installer who was thankfully, willing to work with me as some of this was experimental. The installer was warned on using impact wrenches and to keep ALL factory parts and tires. There is one particular part of the shock sleeve that is to be retained, and may need to be removed via a mallet:
When I examined the Bilstein F150 Spring Seat Adapter (shock sleeve), it looked like it would only cost ½ an inch in ride increase, so I requested it not be added first time around. I did not want the full 3-inches in the front with only 1.5 in the rear. I really wanted 2.5 front, 1.5-inch rear so imagine my total dismay when I ended up with .75 lift only in the front, 2 inches in the rear. The term “stinkbug” comes to mind.
2nd F150 Attempt Day 2:
Re-examining the F150 Spring Seat Adapter (sleeve), I believed it to now be responsible for a solid inch+, not .5 as it appeared (I measured incorrectly due to its taper). We added the sleeve as packaged, it sat as it should on the OEM spring seat, and when it came off the lift, measured an increase from factory lift height of 2.5 inches!
Still—it was strangely short a half inch from everyone else’s here 3-inch lift—but I had gotten what I wanted. It was a total of now of 39.5-inches from ground to top of front fender, and 39.25 on the rears. IT LOOKED GOOD and still had the slightest nose down attitude—PERFECT!
Until it settled…
Strangely enough, the front dropped to 39.0 so this is a full inch off from what other members have experienced (95Scobby in his 2018 FX4, and another member with a blueish 2wd). The rear stayed at 39.25. FWIW, this is the exact dimensional lift I had prior (36.0 F +3 / 36.25 R +3). If I keep this rake, it will work as I tow or load up.
**I hate that the rear tire has moved so close to the rear step/fender. The only good news is under compression, it swings back giving it more clearance. I may look for some trick to make it look better**
I am at a loss as to why. It is clearly lower in the front even from other’s pics here on the Forum. But I am operating from the lowest C-clip on the shock body, so I have nowhere to go but “up.” I am considering raising it one spot up, and this may be useful in the future too if I add a winch/bull bar as I can adjust shock to spring squish from the added weight (not ideal, but better than losing all the lift due to added weight).
TIRES:
Without going in to too many details, the only “D” rated tire (like factory) I could find that I felt gave the look/size/lift I wanted where rubbing would be minimal and weight 10.6 pounds heavier from factory (40 vs 50.6) were the Nitto Terra Grappler G2s in 295/70-R18 116S.
According to Nitto, they are 34.29 inches tall and 11.7 inches wide, for a total 2.2 inches taller and .7 inches wider than the factory Michelin Primacys. Actual measurements of the tire while mounted and aired on the factory 18x8.5-inch rims, they measured 33.6 tall and 11.7 wide.
My Primacys (with 20k on them—but a lot of tread left), when mounted on the truck and measured from the ground, were 31 inches tall (1 inch of ‘squish’ from truck weight on tire). The Nittos as mounted and measured on the truck are 33 inches tall (front) so .6 of squish.
Realizing Nitto’s lack of accuracy, actual lift of frame/suspension parts is 1-inch from ground when stopped (old squished tire vs. new squished tire). But If Nitto HAD been accurate in their tires measurement, my truck would be rubbing everywhere way worse as well. Still, I paid for 34's and would hesitate to say "I am rollin on 34s dawg..." when they are really 33.6s...
(That dirt on the liner accumulated behind the now absent Weathertech mudguard)
SPACERS:
To compensate for the added width on factory FX4 Rims, I had .25-inch BORA aluminum spacers added which allowed for plenty of threads when the lug nuts were put back on. This was a huge safety priority to me, gave the tires a little bit more stance (no poke though) and I was hoping to mitigate some of the added tire width rubbing and the tendency for lifted IFS/IRS ‘tucking inward’ as the vehicle is lifted. Now a ¼ of an inch is very subtle, and I feel like I might add more here at a later date. I could have gone with .375 of an inch, but that extra 3mm increase would eat up a few turns of the lug nut and I did not want to take the chance w/o longer studs.
THE GOOD:
Well, it looks so much BETTER. Like it is a real truck now. It rides BETTER. Softer, yet firmer—hard to describe but the bigger tires are softer over bumps and undulations, and when you hit something harder you feel it, but it is better damped. No clunking or unusual noises.
You KNOW you are sitting in a taller truck. Still, turning quick and going through turns it feels pretty-good, and I attribute it to the quality of the Bilsteins, factory nose down bias, slightly wider than factory stance. 4-wheel alignment was not a problem bringing it to factory specs. I don’t know at this time if this would be true with another inch of lift on the front. TBD
Vehicle is a whole 3 sizes taller. Looks impressive when you are next to other more traditional truck-type-trucks.
Casual acceleration, at least around town and part throttle seems unaltered.
THE BAD:
Yes Virginia, the bad needs to be verbalized more than the good, b/c you will make concessions you will have to accept. This is also some of the reason Ford does not add these items b/c Expy owners are not the same people as F150/Raptor owners…
Any high speed “juking” will be compromised from the increased center of gravity, and any super aggressive high speed lane changes would be more inclined to cause rollover. Obviously, I have not tested this—but it is a matter of physics, indicative to almost any raised vehicle. At highway speeds this morning, with 10 mph crosswind it felt a little more sensitive but hardly noticeable. I have a feeling it would be even more sensitive if the front had a true 3-inch lift.
And as predicted the front rub when turning. They rub the front wheel well (but with 2.5-3 inches of lift and they would just clear) and I had to remove my front splash guards or they would rub there too (will cut and replace). **A true 33-33.2-inch tire should clear here though, but not a 33.6-inch tire IMHO. It is that close. I will be cutting and rearranging, and even if you run the Expy shock lift at 1.6 inch of lift with certain 33-inch tires much above 11.5 inches—you might be cutting and rearranging too. Before you comment, please feel free to measure your own tires (as the companies rarely provide exact measurements) and remember no two vehicles are exactly the same and if you are running wheels with more offset that could solve/cause issues too. Still, you may clear by 3 mm—or not notice the rubbing. Mine is mild enough in some circumstances that I can’t tell/feel. YCMV lol.
Front:
Rears:
IT is VERY tight in there both front and rear with factory rims and .25-inch spacer (you guys with rims that poke out more can help—but not as much as you might think. You might clear in one spot and rub in another.
On the lift, the control arms solidly hit the front springs, on both sides. This pic is before I we added the f150 Spring Seat Adapter. New upper control arms are in the future if it can solve this. With this set up, to lift a front wheel four-wheeling it will strike. (IDK if you guys with 3-inch front coil spring spacers face the same problem?)
It is now a little bit of a haul to get your cookies in the rig. You will have to relearn how you get in and out (and some of the smaller or weaker folks) get in it.
The spare tire (I have another Nitto mounted on an additional FX4 rim) will be a struggle to fit in the well. It more than likely will not fit and at a minimum require a lot of work on a lift to deflate and squish it in there. Will advise later.
The speedo is substantially off: 60 mph reads 64 on the GPS. This will require a Forscan tweak. Also—as expected—the factory tires were virtually silent on the road. On a scale of 1-10, I’d hardly give them a 1, where the Nittos are a solid 2. At around 30-40 mph you hear them but it has no affect on radio/conversations. By the time you are at 60-80, the wind noise has more or less taken over.
However these are brand new tires. Tires NEVER get quieter nor ride better as they age…
Mileage will surely go down due to heavier tires and more aerodynamic drag from lift, spacers, and wider tires and overall emergency braking. The truck now weighs a rough 55 pounds more between the tires (when I add the spare) and spacers. But more importantly, from a past rule regarding rotational mass and weight, the 10.6 lbs. extra per tire (over stock) x 4 = 42.4 lbs. In terms of acceleration and braking, you multiply that outer rotational weight by a factor of x2 to = 84.8 pounds extra (did not include spacers as minimal impact due to so close to the axle and light weight).
Still, not bad when you consider a lot of E rated LT A/Ts can weigh as much a 20-30 pounds more than factory Expy tires PER TIRE.
OVERALL?
So far, I feel it is worth it—but I still a smidge frustrated. I have regular driving issues to be fixed (front rubbing, and fixing my front mud flap) and other off-roading issues (control arms) and maybe bigger spacers & studs (expensive) and rear rubbing. I do not want to commit to a new rim, but if I do, the spacers will let me know how to side it to clear under flexing/compressing conditions.
Oh, and the spare tire thing—which may also be expensive if I consider the hitch mounting.
Would I do it again? Yes. I was not at all happy with the look of the truck, and now it simply looks awesome IMHO.
*Big thanks to Fozzy, Wakeboarder, BLUWAGN, PHIL NOWALSKI, and everyone else who fielded my questions or provided input/insight!
*Future Items for sale:
2x Bilstein 5100 Expedition shocks (unboxed but never mounted or used what I paid + shipping)
3x 275/65 18s Michelin Primacy XC with 20K on the (South Florida delivery only, make offer).
1x Steel spare with Goodyear 265/70 new tire (south Florida delivery only, make offer).
This is my experience, and not an endorsement or recommendation as there is a risk in these modifications to vehicle on-road safety and risk of damage negative affect to your warranty. Note: Bilstein absolutely DOES NOT ENDORSE using F150 shocks in an Expedition (they do endorse use of their 5100 Expy specific shocks). YMMV.
*Please note, the truck has not been cleaned so the tires and some suspension components have mounting grease on them—they are not from rubbing or suspensions strikes/road rash and sorry for the cruddy pics I wanted to get this out rather them glam it up!*
BILSTEIN 5100 SERIES Height Adjustable Shocks:
My stock 2020 FX4 HD Tow package Expedition with 20K in miles, empty, full tank no gear parked in a repeatable location, measured 36 inches ground to top of front fender, and 36.25 ground to rear top fender. I foolishly did not measure from the hub, but this made little actual difference because I had nearly exact tire dimensions when mounted so I was able to determine actual lift from tire lift. NOTE: The Nitto tires added a total of 1 inch in height (due to engine weight, 1.0 front, 1.1 rear to be exact—keep these in mind when I give my measurements as this extra inch from tire height is included))
Front:
Rear:
Shocks: My big debate was over the Bilstein 5100 series of shocks offered for both the Expedition (1.5-inch lift all around) and the F150s (3*inch front only, must use Expy in the rear). The F150s are a factory fit in Gen 4s (IDK if they work on other years) and at the factory "stock height (for an F150) are supposed to add 3* inches of lift to a Gen 4 Expedition. Notice the Asterix?
Expy Shocks on left (the shocks are shown ‘upside-down’ as the top portion in the pic is what is attached to the lower control arm):
The F150 front shocks come with a silver metal sleeve called the "Spring Seat Adapter" which the OEM spring seat sits on (holding the spring) once it is all back together. You can see it on the left shock (Expy shock)—which that shock DOES not come with by design. Note the shocks have C-Clips which fit into predetermined slots into the body of the shock, allowing you to adjust where the coil spring ultimately sits on the shock body. Moving this clip (prior to install) will raise you up/down the spectrum. These clips and slots appear quite sturdy and are probably more trustworthy than the perches on the stock FX4 shocks.
1st F150 Shock Attempt Day 1:
On Friday, I brought all of my kit to the installer who was thankfully, willing to work with me as some of this was experimental. The installer was warned on using impact wrenches and to keep ALL factory parts and tires. There is one particular part of the shock sleeve that is to be retained, and may need to be removed via a mallet:
When I examined the Bilstein F150 Spring Seat Adapter (shock sleeve), it looked like it would only cost ½ an inch in ride increase, so I requested it not be added first time around. I did not want the full 3-inches in the front with only 1.5 in the rear. I really wanted 2.5 front, 1.5-inch rear so imagine my total dismay when I ended up with .75 lift only in the front, 2 inches in the rear. The term “stinkbug” comes to mind.
2nd F150 Attempt Day 2:
Re-examining the F150 Spring Seat Adapter (sleeve), I believed it to now be responsible for a solid inch+, not .5 as it appeared (I measured incorrectly due to its taper). We added the sleeve as packaged, it sat as it should on the OEM spring seat, and when it came off the lift, measured an increase from factory lift height of 2.5 inches!
Still—it was strangely short a half inch from everyone else’s here 3-inch lift—but I had gotten what I wanted. It was a total of now of 39.5-inches from ground to top of front fender, and 39.25 on the rears. IT LOOKED GOOD and still had the slightest nose down attitude—PERFECT!
Until it settled…
Strangely enough, the front dropped to 39.0 so this is a full inch off from what other members have experienced (95Scobby in his 2018 FX4, and another member with a blueish 2wd). The rear stayed at 39.25. FWIW, this is the exact dimensional lift I had prior (36.0 F +3 / 36.25 R +3). If I keep this rake, it will work as I tow or load up.
**I hate that the rear tire has moved so close to the rear step/fender. The only good news is under compression, it swings back giving it more clearance. I may look for some trick to make it look better**
I am at a loss as to why. It is clearly lower in the front even from other’s pics here on the Forum. But I am operating from the lowest C-clip on the shock body, so I have nowhere to go but “up.” I am considering raising it one spot up, and this may be useful in the future too if I add a winch/bull bar as I can adjust shock to spring squish from the added weight (not ideal, but better than losing all the lift due to added weight).
TIRES:
Without going in to too many details, the only “D” rated tire (like factory) I could find that I felt gave the look/size/lift I wanted where rubbing would be minimal and weight 10.6 pounds heavier from factory (40 vs 50.6) were the Nitto Terra Grappler G2s in 295/70-R18 116S.
According to Nitto, they are 34.29 inches tall and 11.7 inches wide, for a total 2.2 inches taller and .7 inches wider than the factory Michelin Primacys. Actual measurements of the tire while mounted and aired on the factory 18x8.5-inch rims, they measured 33.6 tall and 11.7 wide.
My Primacys (with 20k on them—but a lot of tread left), when mounted on the truck and measured from the ground, were 31 inches tall (1 inch of ‘squish’ from truck weight on tire). The Nittos as mounted and measured on the truck are 33 inches tall (front) so .6 of squish.
Realizing Nitto’s lack of accuracy, actual lift of frame/suspension parts is 1-inch from ground when stopped (old squished tire vs. new squished tire). But If Nitto HAD been accurate in their tires measurement, my truck would be rubbing everywhere way worse as well. Still, I paid for 34's and would hesitate to say "I am rollin on 34s dawg..." when they are really 33.6s...
(That dirt on the liner accumulated behind the now absent Weathertech mudguard)
SPACERS:
To compensate for the added width on factory FX4 Rims, I had .25-inch BORA aluminum spacers added which allowed for plenty of threads when the lug nuts were put back on. This was a huge safety priority to me, gave the tires a little bit more stance (no poke though) and I was hoping to mitigate some of the added tire width rubbing and the tendency for lifted IFS/IRS ‘tucking inward’ as the vehicle is lifted. Now a ¼ of an inch is very subtle, and I feel like I might add more here at a later date. I could have gone with .375 of an inch, but that extra 3mm increase would eat up a few turns of the lug nut and I did not want to take the chance w/o longer studs.
THE GOOD:
Well, it looks so much BETTER. Like it is a real truck now. It rides BETTER. Softer, yet firmer—hard to describe but the bigger tires are softer over bumps and undulations, and when you hit something harder you feel it, but it is better damped. No clunking or unusual noises.
You KNOW you are sitting in a taller truck. Still, turning quick and going through turns it feels pretty-good, and I attribute it to the quality of the Bilsteins, factory nose down bias, slightly wider than factory stance. 4-wheel alignment was not a problem bringing it to factory specs. I don’t know at this time if this would be true with another inch of lift on the front. TBD
Vehicle is a whole 3 sizes taller. Looks impressive when you are next to other more traditional truck-type-trucks.
Casual acceleration, at least around town and part throttle seems unaltered.
THE BAD:
Yes Virginia, the bad needs to be verbalized more than the good, b/c you will make concessions you will have to accept. This is also some of the reason Ford does not add these items b/c Expy owners are not the same people as F150/Raptor owners…
Any high speed “juking” will be compromised from the increased center of gravity, and any super aggressive high speed lane changes would be more inclined to cause rollover. Obviously, I have not tested this—but it is a matter of physics, indicative to almost any raised vehicle. At highway speeds this morning, with 10 mph crosswind it felt a little more sensitive but hardly noticeable. I have a feeling it would be even more sensitive if the front had a true 3-inch lift.
And as predicted the front rub when turning. They rub the front wheel well (but with 2.5-3 inches of lift and they would just clear) and I had to remove my front splash guards or they would rub there too (will cut and replace). **A true 33-33.2-inch tire should clear here though, but not a 33.6-inch tire IMHO. It is that close. I will be cutting and rearranging, and even if you run the Expy shock lift at 1.6 inch of lift with certain 33-inch tires much above 11.5 inches—you might be cutting and rearranging too. Before you comment, please feel free to measure your own tires (as the companies rarely provide exact measurements) and remember no two vehicles are exactly the same and if you are running wheels with more offset that could solve/cause issues too. Still, you may clear by 3 mm—or not notice the rubbing. Mine is mild enough in some circumstances that I can’t tell/feel. YCMV lol.
Front:
Rears:
IT is VERY tight in there both front and rear with factory rims and .25-inch spacer (you guys with rims that poke out more can help—but not as much as you might think. You might clear in one spot and rub in another.
On the lift, the control arms solidly hit the front springs, on both sides. This pic is before I we added the f150 Spring Seat Adapter. New upper control arms are in the future if it can solve this. With this set up, to lift a front wheel four-wheeling it will strike. (IDK if you guys with 3-inch front coil spring spacers face the same problem?)
It is now a little bit of a haul to get your cookies in the rig. You will have to relearn how you get in and out (and some of the smaller or weaker folks) get in it.
The spare tire (I have another Nitto mounted on an additional FX4 rim) will be a struggle to fit in the well. It more than likely will not fit and at a minimum require a lot of work on a lift to deflate and squish it in there. Will advise later.
The speedo is substantially off: 60 mph reads 64 on the GPS. This will require a Forscan tweak. Also—as expected—the factory tires were virtually silent on the road. On a scale of 1-10, I’d hardly give them a 1, where the Nittos are a solid 2. At around 30-40 mph you hear them but it has no affect on radio/conversations. By the time you are at 60-80, the wind noise has more or less taken over.
However these are brand new tires. Tires NEVER get quieter nor ride better as they age…
Mileage will surely go down due to heavier tires and more aerodynamic drag from lift, spacers, and wider tires and overall emergency braking. The truck now weighs a rough 55 pounds more between the tires (when I add the spare) and spacers. But more importantly, from a past rule regarding rotational mass and weight, the 10.6 lbs. extra per tire (over stock) x 4 = 42.4 lbs. In terms of acceleration and braking, you multiply that outer rotational weight by a factor of x2 to = 84.8 pounds extra (did not include spacers as minimal impact due to so close to the axle and light weight).
Still, not bad when you consider a lot of E rated LT A/Ts can weigh as much a 20-30 pounds more than factory Expy tires PER TIRE.
OVERALL?
So far, I feel it is worth it—but I still a smidge frustrated. I have regular driving issues to be fixed (front rubbing, and fixing my front mud flap) and other off-roading issues (control arms) and maybe bigger spacers & studs (expensive) and rear rubbing. I do not want to commit to a new rim, but if I do, the spacers will let me know how to side it to clear under flexing/compressing conditions.
Oh, and the spare tire thing—which may also be expensive if I consider the hitch mounting.
Would I do it again? Yes. I was not at all happy with the look of the truck, and now it simply looks awesome IMHO.
*Big thanks to Fozzy, Wakeboarder, BLUWAGN, PHIL NOWALSKI, and everyone else who fielded my questions or provided input/insight!
*Future Items for sale:
2x Bilstein 5100 Expedition shocks (unboxed but never mounted or used what I paid + shipping)
3x 275/65 18s Michelin Primacy XC with 20K on the (South Florida delivery only, make offer).
1x Steel spare with Goodyear 265/70 new tire (south Florida delivery only, make offer).
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