Cam Phasers 2022 Edition

[Rotech35]

Alright folks, bear with me as I know this topic exists all over on Ford forums but I'm looking for answers specific to my case due to a lack of answers. July 1st 2022, I bought a 2018 Expedition Platinum with 62K miles and it has a pretty good rattle on startup. Yep I know...never heard it when buying because they brought it to the showroom from the back of the lot, I test drove, signed the paperwork and then drove it home 2 hours so I never witnessed the first start after a cold soak. Took it to a local dealer and they diagnosed the issue as "the full timing set" so phasers, chain etc. but at a cost of $3700 to me. When I pointed out the various customer satisfaction programs, they told me those programs have expired. I know that isn't the full truth but I'm searching for input on whether I have a case to get them to replace this since I'm within the 100% coverage mileage of 21N03. I also saw that 21N03 was extended through January 2023 provided you had 21B10 completed by 2/28/2022. I know the PCM re-flashes don't work but am looking to follow proper channels in hopes of getting the mechanical items replaced.

1. I've contacted Ford Customer Service asking if my vehicle had 21B10 done before my ownership as I have no record. Their response is that it doesn't show up on their open items so it may have been completed but can't elaborate any further.

2. My FordPass app shows 21N08 as an open CSP. Is 21N08 a 'replacement' to 21B10 or do I have that wrong? Is 21N08 a prequalification to getting 21N03 done the same way 21B10 was?

3. What's the skinny on whether this can cause a catastrophic failure if left as is? If it doesn't, I would entertain leaving it even though it sounds like a turd on startup. All my years of car ownership & wrenching say it could be catastrophic eventually though.

 

[Bmac1955]

Here is my thought. First day home with a cold soak and hearing the noise and on the second day videoing the sound and taking it right back to the dealer GM and would have given the vehicle back to them. I believe you still might have recourse in getting this repaired. Just me thinking out loud.

 

[5280tunage]

I'm sure you've already done this, but I would be on top of the sales manager big time, discussing legal action. My thought is that if the knowingly sold a vehicle that had open "customer satisfaction items", that it would need to be disclosed. And make them pay for the repairs or buyback the car.

Additionally, and this can get messy, trust me, escalate - escalate - escalate with ford customer care. It took me 9month of fighting to get some things done under warranty. They will tell you over and over that there is no one you can escalate to, but eventually you will get someone.

Generally speaking, if any of the open service bulletins were completed, and any "Ford" service for that matter, the service department can lookup the VIN and tell you everything that was performed and don't trust the Fordpass app, mine still shows open bulletins and I know for a fact they were done and properly put in the system.

 

[Bmac1955]

 

[Jettix2]

Alright folks, bear with me as I know this topic exists all over on Ford forums but I'm looking for answers specific to my case due to a lack of answers. July 1st 2022, I bought a 2018 Expedition Platinum with 62K miles and it has a pretty good rattle on startup. Yep I know...never heard it when buying because they brought it to the showroom from the back of the lot, I test drove, signed the paperwork and then drove it home 2 hours so I never witnessed the first start after a cold soak. Took it to a local dealer and they diagnosed the issue as "the full timing set" so phasers, chain etc. but at a cost of $3700 to me. When I pointed out the various customer satisfaction programs, they told me those programs have expired. I know that isn't the full truth but I'm searching for input on whether I have a case to get them to replace this since I'm within the 100% coverage mileage of 21N03. I also saw that 21N03 was extended through January 2023 provided you had 21B10 completed by 2/28/2022. I know the PCM re-flashes don't work but am looking to follow proper channels in hopes of getting the mechanical items replaced.

1. I've contacted Ford Customer Service asking if my vehicle had 21B10 done before my ownership as I have no record. Their response is that it doesn't show up on their open items so it may have been completed but can't elaborate any further.

2. My FordPass app shows 21N08 as an open CSP. Is 21N08 a 'replacement' to 21B10 or do I have that wrong? Is 21N08 a prequalification to getting 21N03 done the same way 21B10 was?

3. What's the skinny on whether this can cause a catastrophic failure if left as is? If it doesn't, I would entertain leaving it even though it sounds like a turd on startup. All my years of car ownership & wrenching say it could be catastrophic eventually though.

I just had cam phasers done on my 2018 Expedition Platinum..........(which I subsequently traded in last week).

If I were you, I'd either demand they warranty the cam phaser repair now, OR give you a Ford ESP Service contract to cover any issues with the car ofr the next 2-3 years.

Mine was purchased CPO + Extended Warranty at 60k, was flashed with the TSB at about 65k, and was repaired under my ESP Service Contract (100% paid) at 74k......... I had so many issues with the car that I ended up trading it in anyways, but I personally would demand one of the above resolutions from the selling dealer.

 

[Bmac1955]

Very good suggestion. I would be surprised if they chose that idea.

 

[Rotech35]

Thanks for the feedback! Yes I am exploring all avenues but wanted to gather as much info as possible to add to my notes. I didn't buy this from a Ford dealer so while they're not washed of all responsibility, I dont expect the same level of knowledge or handling of this known issue as a Ford dealer should have. I also got a good deal and while I've historically been a GM buyer, their full sizers didn't match up to this in space, third row, interior quality etc. unless I sprung for the latest redesign models. So these factor into not just giving it back because I'm not sure what id get instead.

So back to an original question. Is 21N08 a replacement for 21B10? Does anyone know if there was ever a 21N03 notice (like Bmac shared) that states it will be covered if 21N08 was completed before xx date similar to how it referenced completing 21B10 by 2/28/22?

 

[tru3anomaly]

Did you ever get this resolved?

 

[3rd Expyowner123]

I had cam phasers replaced for 2nd time in November 2022. In speaking with parts a manager, somewhere around August 2022 the cam phaser had like a coil as he described it, something unlike past units.
Anybody know anything about this design modification. I just hope these units will last a long time.

 

[5280tunage]

So this is fun, I had the phasers replaced Dec of '20, and a bad rattle at startup is back. So I got just over 2 years on those parts? For real, this is really ******* me off, to now likely need another week, probably with no loaner, for this thing, and to top it off, the turbos that were both replaced in Mar of '21 due to the rattling wastegate are also now rattling again. What a freakin joke. Enjoy my 1987 Subaru knock sounds... (and sorry for the wind noise, nasty day). I mean, when does this really terrible design rise to the levels of class action, the shear loss of time, money, inconvenience, for all Ford customers and we get that terrible notice in the mail, like hey we will help you the first time, but.... Oh, and mind you, while this was 2yrs ago, it was only about 23k miles and I'm super religious about my oil and fluids in this thing.

Edit, also forgot to mention that I did have the TSB re-program done as well, right after the update was announced.

Camphasers~1.m4a

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