Can we talk HD Tow one more time?

[LovinPSDs]

So I'm in the market for a used 4th Gen that will ultimately haul our 26ft/6500lb travel trailer. I'm set on the HD tow package, although having some trouble finding one at a good deal, but regardless I have 2 questions out of interest.

1. Does the 3.73 rear end have a higher GAWR? I'm not having much luck finding this info. Seems the non-HD Tow (3.31 gears) is 4200lbs?

2. With the FX4 package you get all the hard parts of the HD tow minus the fancy reverse knob and the brake controller. The brake controller can be added easily... Can someone explain why the FX4 package is rated of 6K lbs and the HD-Tow is rated for 9K? Must be just the brake controller? If so, the follow on is, any reason I can't just add a brake controller to an FX4 package?

3. Payload - I believe you get the yellow door jam sticker, and this number does NOT include fuel or 150lb driver. Is the driver thing correct? I've seen it in the past but having trouble confirming this as well.

These are mostly questions out of interest more than anything.. we will be buying an HD tow or perhaps and FX4. I suspect the FX4 is lower in payload due to skid plates.

 

[byathread]

From my 2019 Max w/Tow pkg...

 

[LovinPSDs]

Cool, so rear axle on the 3.73s is 4380

 

[LovinPSDs]

I think I have answered one of my own questions by looking back at old threads.

1. the rear axle for 3.73s is 4380 over the 4200 for 3.31s
2. There are two different springs (HD and non-HD) I haven't confirmed this, but potentially the FX4 does not receive the HD springs?
3. Still looking for hard evidence that the payload does NOT include a 150lb driver.

 

[shane_th_ee]

2018 Max FX4 with HD tow package and panoramic sunroof:


I’ve never weighed it without wife/4 kids+car seats/gear/WDH installed (used 3-pass method to confirm hitch setup). But the weight was significantly lower than what I estimated.

Also, we considered getting the FX4 and having the dealer install the brake controller. The dealer quoted ~$500.

I have not checked the part number on my springs yet. Wait! I bet I can use parts.ford.com... be right back...

 

[flying68]

I think I have answered one of my own questions by looking back at old threads.

1. the rear axle for 3.73s is 4380 over the 4200 for 3.31s
2. There are two different springs (HD and non-HD) I haven't confirmed this, but potentially the FX4 does not receive the HD springs?
3. Still looking for hard evidence that the payload does NOT include a 150lb driver.

From 40 CFR § 86.1803-01 - Definitions.:
Curb weight means the actual or the manufacturer's estimated weight of the vehicle in operational status with all standard equipment, and weight of fuel at nominal tank capacity, and the weight of optional equipment computed in accordance with § 86.1832-01; incomplete light-duty trucks shall have the curb weight specified by the manufacturer.
Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the maximum design loaded weight of a single vehicle, consistent with good engineering judgment.

Payload capacity is simply GVWR - Curb Weight and is not defined by regulation. The listed payload, as the picture says it the maximum combined weight of ALL OCCUPANTS AND CARGO which would include the driver and any tongue weight from a trailer. European rules may be different.

And by the way, the way you are stating #3 is the opposite of what you should be looking for. In the absence of hard evidence, one should assume the conservative/safe viewpoint that the payload does not include the driver. You should never assume it does and look for evidence to the contrary as that could lead to an overload. You can't prove a negative.

 

[shane_th_ee]

Ok, I'm back. parts.ford.com shows HD tow rear springs.

 

[LovinPSDs]

From 40 CFR § 86.1803-01 - Definitions.:
Curb weight means the actual or the manufacturer's estimated weight of the vehicle in operational status with all standard equipment, and weight of fuel at nominal tank capacity, and the weight of optional equipment computed in accordance with § 86.1832-01; incomplete light-duty trucks shall have the curb weight specified by the manufacturer.
Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the maximum design loaded weight of a single vehicle, consistent with good engineering judgment.

Payload capacity is simply GVWR - Curb Weight and is not defined by regulation. The listed payload, as the picture says it the maximum combined weight of ALL OCCUPANTS AND CARGO which would include the driver and any tongue weight from a trailer. European rules may be different.

And by the way, the way you are stating #3 is the opposite of what you should be looking for. In the absence of hard evidence, one should assume the conservative/safe viewpoint that the payload does not include the driver. You should never assume it does and look for evidence to the contrary as that could lead to an overload. You can't prove a negative.

I am conservative.. that's why I'm trying to collect the appropriate data.

I think I've mixed up the overall payload (shown in the yellow sticker) and what the Ford Towing manual states (see attachment). This verbiage is from the 2020 towing guide, which has been cleared up compared to older year model tow guides I've been looking at. The older text was not always as clear as the 2020. No matter how you cut it, payload shouldn't exceed the yellow sticker

 

[LovinPSDs]

Ok, I'm back. parts.ford.com shows HD tow rear springs.

Shane - so any FX4 will have HD springs, or yours does because it's FX4 + Tow Package?

 

[BLUWAGN]

This thread got me thinking. Quick check for my Limited Max showed two different springs, one for HD tow and one without. The HD tow did say (without CCD) but maybe I'm not seeing all the listings. I have the HD trailer tow with CCD, and I ordered Sumo Springs for the rear since I knew once in awhile I'd be hooking to trailers that would make it squat. Last weekend I hooked up the boat to show how much squat I had BEFORE the sumosprings so I can see the difference after I add them. Boat and trailer weigh 7100 with 750 tongue weight. 1.5-1.75" of total squat which is much less than I was expecting since this boat squats my Ram 1500 around 2.5". Spring rate on the Ram is about 300 lbs per inch. Can anyone without HD tow confirm squat on a similar tongue weight without HD tow?

 

[sanman28]

My FX4 Max with HD Tow

 

[shane_th_ee]

My FX4 Max with HD Tow

Holy crap that's a lot of payload in a half ton SUV! Tell me more about how you got to 1905? Short wheelbase, no sunroof?

 

[shane_th_ee]

Shane - so any FX4 will have HD springs, or yours does because it's FX4 + Tow Package?

I don't know. You should be able to find the VIN of a non-HD towing FX4 and use parts.ford.com to look up the part number for the rear springs.

 

[sanman28]

Holy crap that's a lot of payload in a half ton SUV! Tell me more about how you got to 1905? Short wheelbase, no sunroof?

20' Max XLT FX4 HD tow with no sunroof.

 

[Eric Mowrer]

2020 Limited Stealth 4x4 HD tow - not max

 

[shane_th_ee]

2020 Limited Stealth 4x4 HD tow - not max

What happened to the FAWR?

 

[Fasttimes]

My FX4 Max with HD Tow

Yeah, I'm very impressed and curious what it takes to get that payload? Typically I assumed the less options on these trucks the more payload you are going to see. For example, most Platinums I see are in the upper 1400 range. Is the FX4 package adding more payload capacity? I assumed Max models would have less payload than non-Max because of the extra material in body, but is it inverse? More payload on Max models?

 

[Dice Roll]

I thought fx4 came standard with hd tow So it would have the brake controller

2018 Max FX4 with HD tow package and panoramic sunroof:
View attachment 37834

I’ve never weighed it without wife/4 kids+car seats/gear/WDH installed (used 3-pass method to confirm hitch setup). But the weight was significantly lower than what I estimated.

Also, we considered getting the FX4 and having the dealer install the brake controller. The dealer quoted ~$500.

I have not checked the part number on my springs yet. Wait! I bet I can use parts.ford.com... be right back...

I thought fx4 came standard with hd tow So it would have the brake controller

 

[shane_th_ee]

I thought fx4 came standard with hd tow So it would have the brake controller


I thought fx4 came standard with hd tow So it would have the brake controller

They’re separate options. The price does get lower on the HD tow once you check the FX4 box as the differences are much smaller.

 

[flying68]

I am conservative.. that's why I'm trying to collect the appropriate data.

I think I've mixed up the overall payload (shown in the yellow sticker) and what the Ford Towing manual states (see attachment). This verbiage is from the 2020 towing guide, which has been cleared up compared to older year model tow guides I've been looking at. The older text was not always as clear as the 2020. No matter how you cut it, payload shouldn't exceed the yellow sticker

View attachment 37836

I think the towing guide is using a 150 lb driver in determining their advertised maximum towing capacity and payload capacity which is understandable because you can't tow or haul stuff without a driver, but that 150 lb driver is useless for most people. The door sticker is just the difference between the curb weight and the GVWR which is better for determining your own situation.