How to use a CAT scale for RV and truck towing?

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Fasttimes

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I think you're conflating payload and tongue weight limits. Your payload limit is on the yellow door sticker. Your tongue weight limit is around 900lbs. With a tongue weight of 800 lbs, you should still have around 600 to 700 lbs of payload remaining.

I wish it was a mistake, but as I add up I hit the limit or go over on my current Expy, 1402 payload.

Tongue: 750
WDH: 100
Me: 270
Wife: 145
Dog 1: 120
Dog 2: 15
Small cooler: 20

1420

With nephews and I, easy 1700 unfortunately. Figure moving to a newer Gen 4 might gain me 100lbs if I'm lucky in payload.

Seems like I'm back to my dilemma of go over payload on that one trip a year and be OK rest of the time, or upgrade truck. We love the trailer so changing that isn't really an option for us. Bummer.
 

JasonH

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I wish it was a mistake, but as I add up I hit the limit or go over on my current Expy, 1402 payload.

Tongue: 750
WDH: 100
Me: 270
Wife: 145
Dog 1: 120
Dog 2: 15
Small cooler: 20

1420

With nephews and I, easy 1700 unfortunately. Figure moving to a newer Gen 4 might gain me 100lbs if I'm lucky in payload.

Seems like I'm back to my dilemma of go over payload on that one trip a year and be OK rest of the time, or upgrade truck. We love the trailer so changing that isn't really an option for us. Bummer.

You're definitely at the limit, but I think you'll be ok. Anything extra should definitely go in the trailer. The newer gens have some nice features, but if you upgrade maybe a highly optioned XLT would be in order to preserve payload.
 

mwl001

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You're definitely at the limit, but I think you'll be ok. Anything extra should definitely go in the trailer. The newer gens have some nice features, but if you upgrade maybe a highly optioned XLT would be in order to preserve payload.
Going to 4th Gen would help - I have a fully optioned 4x4 Limited Max with HD tow and I have 1603 lbs of payload with the bench seat. XLT Max HD tow with captain's chairs will add maybe 200 lbs more to that?
 

JasonH

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Going to 4th Gen would help - I have a fully optioned 4x4 Limited Max with HD tow and I have 1603 lbs of payload with the bench seat. XLT Max HD tow with captain's chairs will add maybe 200 lbs more to that?

According to the Google spreadsheet, it's between 1600 and 1800 lbs for the 4th gen XLT trims. I'm curious to see what happens if Ford adds PowerBoost for 2022. I don't know if the payload is just springs, or if there's some other hardware required to increase it. If it's just spring rates, Ford should offer a higher payload option with stiffer springs and retuned struts as part the HD Tow package. Even 250 more lbs would provide some headroom. Hell, Ford should do a leaderboard for customer suggestions and people can vote to push up the most popular ones.
 
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Fasttimes

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You would think that Ford would be aware of the need. Unless there is a limitation physics-wise that it couldn't be done, a High Capacity Payload option on and Expy would be amazing.

For me an XLT wouldn't work out. To get the wife to spend this kind of money she wants beyond utilitarian, she wants leather and all the fancy stuff. And for me, due to a recent eye injury adaptive cruise is now a requirement. It's Platinum trim or bust, unless I could find a Limited that has the goods added and then probably be at Platinum pricing anyways. Not a fan of Max option, but I do realize it will gain some payload and probably should think about it.
 

Bigfishfin

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FWIW, I am going to just bug out of any discussions regarding towing with an Expy because seems there is a lot of hope and dreams regarding TT/TV weights and lengths, etc. My advice is that there are dedicated forums for RVs in which folks with a whole lot of real world experience are happy to share their wisdom. Having too much TV is much better than not enough! Cheers!
 

JasonH

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FWIW, I am going to just bug out of any discussions regarding towing with an Expy because seems there is a lot of hope and dreams regarding TT/TV weights and lengths, etc. My advice is that there are dedicated forums for RVs in which folks with a whole lot of real world experience are happy to share their wisdom. Having too much TV is much better than not enough! Cheers!

The problem with many of those groups is that people think the only answer to a towing issue is get a bigger tow vehicle. Yes, a larger vehicle will be more capable, but that's not a feasible answer for everyone. My first question is always going to be did you visit a scale, because ensuring the vehicle weights are allocated correctly is one of the first steps in troubleshooting. For some reason people that upgrade to 3/4 tons think that's the fix for every problem. And others say I wouldn't tow over 30 ft with an Expedition...when I've been towing over that with no issues. Granted, I'm not towing in the Rockies, but if I did and it sucked I would tell people that.
 

shane_th_ee

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I wish it was a mistake, but as I add up I hit the limit or go over on my current Expy, 1402 payload.

Tongue: 750
WDH: 100
Me: 270
Wife: 145
Dog 1: 120
Dog 2: 15
Small cooler: 20

1420

With nephews and I, easy 1700 unfortunately. Figure moving to a newer Gen 4 might gain me 100lbs if I'm lucky in payload.

Seems like I'm back to my dilemma of go over payload on that one trip a year and be OK rest of the time, or upgrade truck. We love the trailer so changing that isn't really an option for us. Bummer.
Moving to a Gen 4 with HD tow, 4x4 and WITHOUT the sunroof will increase your payload by about 400lbs. I'm at 1670 with the sunroof, which is about a 150lb option.
 

Knut

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You would think that Ford would be aware of the need. Unless there is a limitation physics-wise that it couldn't be done, a High Capacity Payload option on and Expy would be amazing.

For me an XLT wouldn't work out. To get the wife to spend this kind of money she wants beyond utilitarian, she wants leather and all the fancy stuff. And for me, due to a recent eye injury adaptive cruise is now a requirement. It's Platinum trim or bust, unless I could find a Limited that has the goods added and then probably be at Platinum pricing anyways. Not a fan of Max option, but I do realize it will gain some payload and probably should think about it.


I've got a 2019 Max XLT: Leather seats heated and cooled, heated steering wheel, dual zone heating, 2nd row bench power fold down, 40/20/40 split, 3rd row power down/up, backup assist, NO SUNROOF, WIFI.
HD Tow.
PAYLOAD: 1798 LBS.
GVWR:7720
R-GAWR: 4380
F-GAWR: 3550


Had to buy a new one as I couldn't find a used with high enough payload.
 

Nightfire

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So I've been back and forth on what my next move was with the current loads not acceptable to me. Move up to Super Duty level, or make the Expy situation work out. This weekend I decided I'd put the trailer on a diet and see if I could made some headway, and I did! I was able to reduce the tongue weight by 200lbs. Here's the changes I made..

  • Removed both 30lb propane tanks, swapped in one 20lb tank (3/4 full), and crafted a PVC pipe to support the other missing tanks spot. Got some more changes for this area in mind. I've ordered two 17lb fiberglass tanks that are half the weight of a steel tank. Problem is nobody can seem to get them in stock. So this 20lb tank set up will do for now.
  • Re-adjusted my Equalizer, moving the arm brackets further away from the tongue to the recommended 32" distance, probably a move of about 1 3/4" but figure any bit more will assist in transferring more weight from the tongue to the trailer's axles.
  • Went through all the cargo, tools, and accessories in the camper and played (do I really need this?). Removed several items, from a small vaccum that is never used to extra water hoses and a teak outdoor shower platform. Yeah, stuff I don't "need".
  • Moved all heavy items from front storage to storage over axles or in rear of trailer. Between this reorganization and the propane changes I'm sure it was the bulk of the weight savings on the tongue. Only stuff I'm leaving in front storage is sewage hoses, outdoor carpet, small grill, and cellular antenna.
So after doing all this and hooking up immediately I could see a much better stance of the Expys rear end, it was very much improved. Now it was time to get on to a scale and get the results of my efforts.

Wife wasn't crazy about it but we packed pretty much like we were going away for a weekend from clothes in the closets to bikes on the rear mount, dog food, canned food, camp chairs, you name it. So on to the scale...



2010 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer with HD tow. 10,000# Equalizer WDH, 2015 27RBDS Winnebago Ultralite

Truck sticker has payload of 1402, FGVWR of 3700 and RGVWR of 4250
Trailer has two 3500 axles, and an GVWR of 7700

Trucked weighed with one axle each on pad with 2 adults, 1 large dog, one small dog, one small cooler:

Steer Axle: 3040
Drive Axle: 3380


First pass, 2 adults, 1 large dog, one small dog, one small cooler. WDH engaged.

Steer Axle: 3020

Drive Axle: 4100

Trailer Axle: 6740

Gross Weight: 13860


Second pass, 2 adults, 1 large dog, one small dog, one small cooler. WDH arms unloaded


Steer Axle: 2600

Drive Axle: 4700

Trailer Axle: 6560


Third pass, 2 adults, 1 large dog, one small dog, one small cooler. Truck completely on pad 1 of scale, Trailer Jack on middle pad, Trailer axles on rear scale


Steer Axle: 6420

Drive Axle: 900

Trailer Axle: 6540

Gross Weight: 13860



So, as I see it, I went from 1100lb tongue weight to 900lbs! WHD is moving about 180lbs of that 900lb off the tongue and onto the trailer's axles.


Now this wasn't an exact re-test because the payload was different this time compared when I was with 3 teenage boys. Large Rottie weighs 120 so he's close to the size of one of them, wife too, so figure compared to last time the payload was about 220lbs lighter in the truck. But this test is more real for me, because this is the setup I'll have 90% of the time.

So I think I can work with these numbers, especially getting into a Gen 4 Expy with a slightly higher payload and a gain of about 130lbs more capacity on RGVWR. I think I'll be within my needed margins most of the time and some. Maybe not when I take 3 teenage boys, but that one time a year I do that I think it'll be close enough.

I'm happy with the results, happy enough that I'll be shopping for a 4th Gen Expy in the near future. I'll tweak a little more weight off if I can, especially in the propane department and I think it'll work out.

Newb here but I am curious is to why the setup was weighed 4 times (including the truck by itself).

Just from the truck weigh and WDH loaded, you can extract:
A. Truck empty = 6420
B. GCW = 13860
C. Trailer = 7440 (B - A)
D. GCWR loaded = 7120
E. Tongue Weight = 700 (D - A)
F. Tongue % = 9.4% (E / C)

You went from 14.6% to 9.4% and a GCWR change of 7540# to 7120# which is significant. You probably would have been ok leaving the propane tanks alone and simply doing the other changes only.
 
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