Is all the "fuel saving" tech really worth it in the long run?

[TobyU]

I don't know. The chart I looked up shows it boiling down to -90 so if it's boiling it must still be a liquid.
Pressure has lots of eye defects on boiling and freezing points. We put coolant in our car for antifreeze and it's that ethylene glycol or whatever other chemicals it may be made out of that lowers the freezing point below 32 but the boiling point is strictly increased just because of the 14 to 16 pounds of pressure it's under.
So I assume in a vacuum situation it's possible to have water a lot colder than 32 and not be solid. I know on the slushie machines and Ice chip machines with the slow constant agitation and the ice crystals the temperature can be well below 32 but not solid with no chemicals to depress the freezing point.
There's actually some science that goes in to those freeze machines.

 

[Plati]

https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/does-water-freeze-or-boil-in-space-7889856d7f36

not at all sure what the -90 reference is, sublimation?

Liquid water freezes at zero degrees centigrade for all atmospheric pressures below 100 bar. Above 100 bar the freezing point temperature decreases in a certain range. So for all practical purposes atmospheric pressure has no impact on the freezing point of water.

There is the phenomenon of super cooled water but that's an anomaly.
http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/supercooled_water.html

 

[TobyU]

https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/does-water-freeze-or-boil-in-space-7889856d7f36

not at all sure what the -90 reference is, sublimation?

Liquid water freezes at zero degrees centigrade for all atmospheric pressures below 100 bar. Above 100 bar the freezing point temperature decreases in a certain range. So for all practical purposes atmospheric pressure has no impact on the freezing point of water.

There is the phenomenon of super cooled water but that's an anomaly.
http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/supercooled_water.html

Me either just from the chart it looks different. I didn't do any checking on if water could be liquid below 32.

 

[Joedirtyshirt]

COMPARE ALL FACTORS, How much did the average auto cost in the day, how much did it cost to repair in comparison to what your annual income was, then even up to the 80's could you just fill the tank and head to FL. on a whim and not have to worry about making it, I remember those good old days, what was good then would be trying to today's drivers, I used to carry extra parts, tools, last trip I forgot to put my tools on board and didn't even miss them till we returned 2 weeks latter when I saw them on the mud room floor at home, so yes even if I think that the green movement is a little over board the machines do run/preform so much better during there life cycle, with basic maintenance, that doesn't mean lift the heads and do a valve job either, as for the flood damaged vehicles I don't care what it was total strip down is the only way to get them back and every thing I tried to save still was never right and should have been junked, so electronics push them into the heap then that is a good thing, I wouldn't trade my Expedition for all the vehicles I've owned or even the ones that I've worked on even those 60's vets and monster Mustangs never was much for those Chevelle's even thou I could sell them to buy another Expedition or 2

 

[TobyU]

COMPARE ALL FACTORS, How much did the average auto cost in the day, how much did it cost to repair in comparison to what your annual income was, then even up to the 80's could you just fill the tank and head to FL. on a whim and not have to worry about making it, I remember those good old days, what was good then would be trying to today's drivers, I used to carry extra parts, tools, last trip I forgot to put my tools on board and didn't even miss them till we returned 2 weeks latter when I saw them on the mud room floor at home, so yes even if I think that the green movement is a little over board the machines do run/preform so much better during there life cycle, with basic maintenance, that doesn't mean lift the heads and do a valve job either, as for the flood damaged vehicles I don't care what it was total strip down is the only way to get them back and every thing I tried to save still was never right and should have been junked, so electronics push them into the heap then that is a good thing, I wouldn't trade my Expedition for all the vehicles I've owned or even the ones that I've worked on even those 60's vets and monster Mustangs never was much for those Chevelle's even thou I could sell them to buy another Expedition or 2

Well, if you like your Expedition more than any vehicle you've ever owned. That's an oddity right there.
When they first came out in 97 I said this will be a great vehicle to have in a few years they come down to Affordable price ranges but then again on cheap. I like The Stance and how they were taller and looks like they already were lifted up vs Suburbans and Yukons were too long and low looking. This is why an expedition looks better than an Excursion even though Excursion is a more capable vehicle.
I guess it's just all in the eye of the beholder and we all like different styles. When I was 16 if I could have had my dream car it would have been a 68 to 72 Chevelle. That's just for that body style but then I realized that I really wouldn't want hey 72. Then it would be really hard to decide between a 68 69 70 or 71 because the 454 would put me over the edge and steer me away from the 68 or 69 but there was a time I would have been very happy with a 396 Factory 402.
I missed a great deal by a little less than eight or nine months because I wasn't old enough and my parents weren't ready for me to buy a car on a great 69. And I ended up find a 68 LeMans for my first car and then ended up being a Pontiac aficionado.
It's kind of weird. And the 60 8 271 models I will take the Chevelle everytime even over a judge or any other Pontiac. But I will take a 67 LeMans or GTO over a 66 or 67 Chevelle any day of the week.
The annoying part is it costs more money to build the Pontiacs to be as fast when you start talking about the 396 and 454s in the chevys.

 

[Bigfishfin]

Some technology is just plain stupid and not worth the additional cost/wear/reliability. Some costs us performance

Let me tell you about one of the most bone headed decisions I made a few years ago. The water heater in a rental failed of very old age. I traveled down to the local Home Depot and scanned the lineup of water heaters and for some unknown, insane, reason I bought a "smart" water heater. The stupid thing was supposed to "learn" when the hot water was drawn in the house and chill out otherwise (and I do not even pay for electricity)! Well, the thing lasted about 1 1/2 years before it fried itself in a puff of smoke and I hauled it back to HD and bought a "dumb" water heater that has worked for years...BTW, when I bought my used 2015 Expy, I got a stripped down XLT on purpose, maybe 30 less microchips?...

 

[Trainmaster]

I bought a "smart" water heater.

I never by anything "smart" for a rental. The last thing I want to do on Christmas Eve is dick around with someone's instant-on energy saving hot water heater. And I don't buy anything "smart" for the same reason: I don't need it and it's only gonna cost me grief.

And yeah, my boilers are still all cast iron with mechanical controls. In 40 years none of my tenants ever lost a day of heat or hot water.

 

[TobyU]

Then definitely stick with gas water heaters. Unfortunately the new ones are getting more sophisticated and temperamental with power flues and other crap. The plain old standing pilot thermocouple style is the best. Electric water heaters will always give you problems with elements burning out and caused at least reduced amount of hot water.