Letter to My Dealer

[D__J]

I am on my 3rd Ford Expedition (2016, 2020 and now 2023). I really like my dealership; my salesman is excellent and the service department has always been great. Over the years I have purchased from them an F150, Escape and two of my three Expeditions. My last purchase was several years ago, partly because my 2020 Expedition's transmission died in Arizona (my dealership is in PA), and Arizona wanted five weeks to repair under warranty, so my 2023 was reluctantly purchased in Arizona.

The other day my salesman emailed me: I was just checking in to see how everything is with you. I certainly hope this finds you well. If for any reason, good, bad, or indifferent, I am here for you. Let me know how I can help.

He knows I've had trouble with the two Expeditions. I do not blame my dealership for Ford's Quality issues. Here was my response:

Hi Joe,

Thanks for your email and I hope you are well. I think the best of your dealership, you especially, and service! You guys have always been great and have taken care of me.

Bottom line: Ford quality has disappointed me. Every Expedition I’ve had, has had major issues prior to 70K miles, from engine to transmission failure.

The last truck I purchased from you had a bad transmission while I was working in Arizona in December 2023. It was not even 3 years old!

The dealership there took 10 days for diagnosis; then told me they needed 4-5 weeks to replace it (under warranty). They said they had about 100 other trucks with transmission issues ahead of mine. Wow!

I get the Premium Care warranty with every truck, however, that was no help. I wanted to talk to Ford directly; can you believe it, there is not a single person to speak with at Ford; when I asked for an address to send a letter, I was told there was no address.

Back to Arizona; I was thousands of miles from home, paying for a hotel. I had zero trade in value for a Ford without a transmission. I dropped big bucks on a new Expedition to get home. Ford had me over the barrel because their Expedition is not reliable.

To be honest: I am looking at the Toyota Sequoia; they seem to last forever, but the interior is miniscule compared to the Expedition Max and the battery takes up part of the trunk. I like the styling of the new Expedition. I don’t like it that the off-road version does not come in a Max length. Can’t get an FX4 Max anymore?

Next year I would also like to replace the Escape with a newer vehicle. I want to buy American! I want to keep your dealership!

I drive 20-30K miles/year; I work from the Expedition sometimes. I spend a lot of time on dusty roads – a month in Nebraska, a month in Saskatchewan, a month in Wyoming – you get it, but nothing that would be considered extreme off-road, no rock crawling or stream crossing. If my type of driving is too much for the Expedition, please let me know. Otherwise, I need a truck I can rely on after 50K miles and I think it’s crazy to buy a new truck every 3 years!

However, if I must buy a new truck every 3 years, I can go that way, but then the price needs to be much less; it is not worth the premium $80-90K price tag, it is worth $50-60K because it stops being reliable after 50K miles. Part of this, obviously, is the fact that Ford did not help me in Arizona, and by “help” I mean replacing my transmission within 10 days.

Sadly, I know I am not alone with the above sentiments, the CEO feels the same; Google Search: https://www.google.com/search?q=ford+ceo+complains+about+warranty+claims

Maybe you have a better connection at Ford then I do; tell them I want to buy American, I love my dealership and the guys there, and I just want a reliable Expedition (too much to ask?).

Kind regards,
<my name>

I realize my response will be ignored; they know the quality of Ford is not there. The dealership is not part of Ford, they did not make the truck. Why am I writing this post? Because I want the quality to be there and this does not sit well with me. I do not understand why Ford has failed so miserably in their quality? Does any know why? I want this to change, but at some point I need to be smart and get a truck that does not have quality issues that have literally left me stranded. Even worse, for what I need, other choices have their drawbacks.

Forgive the rant, appreciate you listening. Have a great weekend!

Kind regards,
Derek

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

I am on my 3rd Ford Expedition (2016, 2020 and now 2023). I really like my dealership; my salesman is excellent and the service department has always been great. Over the years I have purchased from them an F150, Escape and two of my three Expeditions. My last purchase was several years ago, partly because my 2020 Expedition's transmission died in Arizona (my dealership is in PA), and Arizona wanted five weeks to repair under warranty, so my 2023 was reluctantly purchased in Arizona.

The other day my salesman emailed me: I was just checking in to see how everything is with you. I certainly hope this finds you well. If for any reason, good, bad, or indifferent, I am here for you. Let me know how I can help.

He knows I've had trouble with the two Expeditions. I do not blame my dealership for Ford's Quality issues. Here was my response:



I realize my response will be ignored; they know the quality of Ford is not there. The dealership is not part of Ford, they did not make the truck. Why am I writing this post? Because I want the quality to be there and this does not sit well with me. I do not understand why Ford has failed so miserably in their quality? Does any know why? I want this to change, but at some point I need to be smart and get a truck that does not have quality issues that have literally left me stranded. Even worse, for what I need, other choices have their drawbacks.

Forgive the rant, appreciate you listening. Have a great weekend!

Kind regards,
Derek

Good luck.

I got rid of my Expedition Limited 4WD due to poor quality, poor dealer service and poor service from the Ford Premium Care service plan (customer service call center moved to the Philippines). I did not even consider a new Expedition. I bought a new Tahoe Premier.

A defective transmission took 3 months to repair, after diagnosis. A defective steering rack also took 3 months to repair (separately), after diagnosis. Both times the vehicle remained at the dealership, out-of-service. It took one year and one day for Ford to provide the repair part for a safety recall (vehicle fire potential).

Ford’s poor quality is now well known and systemic - it is entrenched across its model lines and its employees. Their CEO knows there is a massive quality problem and is unable to get a handle on it.

Ford has had the most safety recalls and the most vehicles recalled for the past three years. In 2025, Ford has already issued 88 safety recalls for the first six months! This is testament to their miserable quality and poor manufacturing.

 

[D__J]

Ford’s poor quality is now well known and systemic - it is entrenched across its model lines and its employees. Their CEO knows there is a massive quality problem and is unable to get a handle on it.

Ford has had the most safety recalls and the most vehicles recalled for the past three years. In 2025, Ford has already issued 88 safety recalls for the first six months! This is testament to their miserable quality and poor manufacturing.

You're correct. Sadly, it almost seems intentional. Not sure how this resolves. I guess enough of us get fed up and buy something else, which is my direction for my two Ford vehicles.

 

[dr2024]

I am on my 3rd Ford Expedition (2016, 2020 and now 2023). I really like my dealership; my salesman is excellent and the service department has always been great. Over the years I have purchased from them an F150, Escape and two of my three Expeditions. My last purchase was several years ago, partly because my 2020 Expedition's transmission died in Arizona (my dealership is in PA), and Arizona wanted five weeks to repair under warranty, so my 2023 was reluctantly purchased in Arizona.

The other day my salesman emailed me: I was just checking in to see how everything is with you. I certainly hope this finds you well. If for any reason, good, bad, or indifferent, I am here for you. Let me know how I can help.

He knows I've had trouble with the two Expeditions. I do not blame my dealership for Ford's Quality issues. Here was my response:



I realize my response will be ignored; they know the quality of Ford is not there. The dealership is not part of Ford, they did not make the truck. Why am I writing this post? Because I want the quality to be there and this does not sit well with me. I do not understand why Ford has failed so miserably in their quality? Does any know why? I want this to change, but at some point I need to be smart and get a truck that does not have quality issues that have literally left me stranded. Even worse, for what I need, other choices have their drawbacks.

Forgive the rant, appreciate you listening. Have a great weekend!

Kind regards,
Derek

Good letter.

How’s the 2023 been holding up?

 

[D__J]

Good letter.

How’s the 2023 been holding up?

Thank you; 2023 so far has been holding up well. I'm at ~ 35K miles, no issues, which has been the case for my others. Things hit the fan after 60K. I have 2 major trips planned for the remainder of the year which will put me past 50K miles on her.

I think next year I will have to make a decision on what to buy next. Love the size of the Max; unfortunately Toyota has nothing close. The Suburban is something to consider. Not sure what else to look at.

 

[SGM B]

I believe I know what the problem is - UAW, top tier hourly wage = $33.00/hr. Paying these people $33 per hour is like paying fast food workers $20 per hour. In my opinion, I believe the UAW may have outlived their usefulness.

 

[Fastcar]

I believe I know what the problem is - UAW, top tier hourly wage = $33.00/hr. Paying these people $33 per hour is like paying fast food workers $20 per hour. In my opinion, I believe the UAW may have outlived their usefulness.

With the present administration and their desire to deprive people of every benefit they have the need for organized labor is going increase. Read a little history. Do you actually think an employer pay's for sick day's or medical coverage and whatever benefit you receive because they are nice people?

 

[JamaicaJoe]

I believe I know what the problem is - UAW, top tier hourly wage = $33.00/hr. Paying these people $33 per hour is like paying fast food workers $20 per hour. In my opinion, I believe the UAW may have outlived their usefulness.

Much as I am not crazy for unions, the assembling of a vehicle today is far more complex than your car from the 1970's. Do you want the guy from the McDonalds grill installing the airbag wiring in your Expy? I don't think the huge price tag of these vehicles stems from the few hours spent bolting it together. The problem lies within the design and resulting complexities of the electronic controls. There are computers for everything. My 2001 Expy admittedly has a lot of motors moving gears and levers, but in the end there is a simply an ECU, an ABS and a dumb BCM with relays and conventional point to point wiring. Compare that with Gen 3 and now Gen 4 with CANBUS modules in every corner nook and cranny. Have you seen the electrical wiring manual? It is huge. I have both a Gen 1 and a Gen 3. The Gen 1 is really a better platform for long term reliability than the Gen 3 and Gen 4. I can only imagine the problems with the Gen 4 drive trains.

 

[JamaicaJoe]

I am on my 3rd Ford Expedition (2016, 2020 and now 2023). I really like my dealership; my salesman is excellent and the service department has always been great. Over the years I have purchased from them an F150, Escape and two of my three Expeditions. My last purchase was several years ago, partly because my 2020 Expedition's transmission died in Arizona (my dealership is in PA), and Arizona wanted five weeks to repair under warranty, so my 2023 was reluctantly purchased in Arizona.

The other day my salesman emailed me: I was just checking in to see how everything is with you. I certainly hope this finds you well. If for any reason, good, bad, or indifferent, I am here for you. Let me know how I can help.

He knows I've had trouble with the two Expeditions. I do not blame my dealership for Ford's Quality issues. Here was my response:



I realize my response will be ignored; they know the quality of Ford is not there. The dealership is not part of Ford, they did not make the truck. Why am I writing this post? Because I want the quality to be there and this does not sit well with me. I do not understand why Ford has failed so miserably in their quality? Does any know why? I want this to change, but at some point I need to be smart and get a truck that does not have quality issues that have literally left me stranded. Even worse, for what I need, other choices have their drawbacks.

Forgive the rant, appreciate you listening. Have a great weekend!

Kind regards,
Derek

There is no excuse for a warranty transmission to take more than a few days to procure. I have to wonder if the AZ dealer was sandbagging it to press you into a trade in. In 1995 my 1993 E350 15 passenger extended van experienced a blowout of the drivers rear tempered glass when I was traveling from Florida and was just outside of Denver. You would think that getting a huge piece of tempered glass on short order would be a problem. I mean how many of those actually fail? Well the dealer had it fixed within basically a day, in warranty, no hassle. He told me it could have simply been scratched in a corner when installed and the heat set it off. I was expecting a week of downtime. That vehicle by the way made it trouble free to 138K miles under my ownership before I started having some problems with the HVAC and I questioned owning a 10 year old truck. I expect it may still be on the road today. I bought my Gen 1 Expy that day. Still running.

 

[D__J]

Much as I am not crazy for unions, the assembling of a vehicle today is far more complex than your car from the 1970's...

This is likely closer to the problem than union workers putting Coke bottles in the door frames.

In the alternative, Ford might be cutting costs to the extreme and eff'ing the customer by using cheaper components, that do not last, to make a few thousand more per truck.

Also, no one can deny the cultural attitude difference between a Japanese or German manufacturer versus an American manufacturer, and that is likely part of the problem at Ford.

 

[JamaicaJoe]

This is likely closer to the problem than union workers putting Coke bottles in the door frames.

In the alternative, Ford might be cutting costs to the extreme and eff'ing the customer by using cheaper components, that do not last, to make a few thousand more per truck.

Also, no one can deny the cultural attitude difference between a Japanese or German manufacturer versus an American manufacturer, and that is likely part of the problem at Ford.

There are two things driving the cost of automobiles; 1) Government fuel economy targets which are at this point in time unfavorable to the reliability of gasoline engines. This affects all brands. This is why you see trucks and SUV with turbo V6's pulling Airstream trailers and smaller crossover SUV's equipped with 1.4L turbos that burn themselves up on the freeway. 2) An insatiable and insane demand(?) by consumers to have the most space age electronic amenities to the point of ridiculous complexity that the dealer techs cannot keep up with the problems the consumers are reporting at the service desk. Why in the world does anyone need a wireless cellphone charging pad in their console?

 

[D__J]

There is no excuse for a warranty transmission to take more than a few days to procure. I have to wonder if the AZ dealer was sandbagging it to press you into a trade in. In 1995 my 1993 E350 15 passenger extended van experienced a blowout of the drivers rear tempered glass when I was traveling from Florida and was just outside of Denver. You would think that getting a huge piece of tempered glass on short order would be a problem. I mean how many of those actually fail? Well the dealer had it fixed within basically a day, in warranty, no hassle. He told me it could have simply been scratched in a corner when installed and the heat set it off. I was expecting a week of downtime. That vehicle by the way made it trouble free to 138K miles under my ownership before I started having some problems with the HVAC and I questioned owning a 10 year old truck. I expect it may still be on the road today. I bought my Gen 1 Expy that day. Still running.

You are correct! However, I went to three other dealerships in Phoenix; they couldn't touch it faster. December 2023 there was a shortage of transmission mechs (Ford later acknowledged this) and they floated between locations (meaning they did not have transmission techs Mon-Fri). I didn't deal with sales either; maybe they exaggerated there were 100 trucks ahead of mine, perhaps it was 20 or 30, still too many.

Is it possible the dealership knows out of towners with transmission service bulletin (SB) issues are likely to buy a new truck if forced to wait 4-5 weeks? I did not have an appointment, from the first moment the lack of transmission mechs was the delay.

After 10 days, they performed the steps in the SB and warned me of further issues, which required the warranty replacement; they strongly suggested I not drive 2,500 miles on it back home.

They had me over the barrel that's for sure. And that's the rub, for me, about Ford - while the dealership didn't make the truck - however, Ford is represented by the dealership and the product is not reliable after 50K miles.

 

[D__J]

There are two things driving the cost of automobiles; 1) Government fuel economy targets which are at this point in time unfavorable to the reliability of gasoline engines. This affects all brands. This is why you see trucks and SUV with turbo V6's pulling Airstream trailers and smaller crossover SUV's equipped with 1.4L turbos that burn themselves up on the freeway. 2) An insatiable and insane demand(?) by consumers to have the most space age electronic amenities to the point of ridiculous complexity that the dealer techs cannot keep up with the problems the consumers are reporting at the service desk. Why in the world does anyone need a wireless cellphone charging pad in their console?

100% agree. Please get rid of the Dial Gear Shifter because the other day I almost put the truck into reverse when I went to lower the AC (they are in line and the same shape!). Couldn't agree more.

 

[JamaicaJoe]

I have a Gen 1 and Gen 3 and the Gen 1 column shifter is burnt into my muscle memory. Though the Gen 3 has a "stick" selector, there is no gear selection indication in the cluster, so I have to look down while backing , etc which is not safe. The "stick" is a pretty ugly protuberance taking up space in the floor console. I really wonder who thinks of these things. That Gen 4 rotary shift knob deal reminds me of when BMW came up with that (i?) knob for all the electronics controls and it drove owners crazy, and often broke.

 

[Trainmaster]

Is someone who buys an $85,000 car really complaining that the people making it earn a whopping $33/hour?

 

[JamaicaJoe]

Is someone who buys an $85,000 car really complaining that the people making it earn a whopping $33/hour?

There must be 2,575 hours of UAW labor in that truck. Anyone spending $85K on a truck must be very wealthy or very dumb, if not. Actually $33 hr today, adjusted for inflation, is really not a lot of money for that kind of job. I made about $8 an hour way back in 1976 and was a new hire in electronics. The company I worked for was afraid of IBEW. Rumor was that company thugs roughed up a union organizer out in the parking lot.

 

[D__J]

There must be 2,575 hours of UAW labor in that truck. Anyone spending $85K on a truck must be very wealthy or very dumb, if not. Actually $33 hr today, adjusted for inflation, is really not a lot of money for that kind of job. I made about $8 an hour way back in 1976 and was a new hire in electronics. The company I worked for was afraid of IBEW. Rumor was that company thugs roughed up a union organizer out in the parking lot.

2,575 hours of labor per truck? Or do you mean something else?

 

[bb37]

There are two things driving the cost of automobiles; 1) Government fuel economy targets which are at this point in time unfavorable to the reliability of gasoline engines. This affects all brands. This is why you see trucks and SUV with turbo V6's pulling Airstream trailers and smaller crossover SUV's equipped with 1.4L turbos that burn themselves up on the freeway. 2) An insatiable and insane demand(?) by consumers to have the most space age electronic amenities to the point of ridiculous complexity that the dealer techs cannot keep up with the problems the consumers are reporting at the service desk. Why in the world does anyone need a wireless cellphone charging pad in their console?

There's a third thing driving the cost of automobiles: 3) Ever-increasing government mandates for "safety features".

Of the 5 recalls listed by NHTSA for the 2024 Ford Expedition, one is for the (Federally-mandated) rearview camera and another is for a missing (Federally-mandated) dashboard air bag warning label.

It's not that the air bag is defective. The problem is that a Federally-mandated label is missing and "can lead to a lack of customer awareness of the airbag system and its deployment in the event of a crash".

How much do you suppose it costs Ford to send letters to the 27,678 Expedition, Explorer, Escape, F-150, Navigator, Aviator, Corsair owners who might be affected by the missing air bag warning label? All for a label that probably costs a dime to print and 30 seconds to apply.

Granted, if this label was required by law or rule, then these vehicles should not have left the factory without it. So, Ford has to pay for a recall.

I'm not saying that these safety features are A Bad Thing. But, safety features aren't free and it's foolish to think that any car manufacturer won't pass the costs of safety features onto the customer.

 

[D__J]

Dealer never replied to my email, not surprised, so I'll move on too. Bye Ford.

 

[JamaicaJoe]

2,575 hours of labor per truck? Or do you mean something else?

There is a post blaming UAW labor wages for the $85K trucks. Just putting it into perspective, that it is not UAW labor causing the high prices.