Max Maximum Towing Input

[absolutezero273c]

Hi All,

I know the towing questions have been covered in the forums an awful lot, so I apologize. But I can't seem to get a good read based on towing at the max 9200 lbs. I've searched and read all the threads/posts I can about towing 3500-6500 lbs. Just not 9200 lbs.

I'm coming from towing with my 2001 Ford Excursion 7.3 that I've owned for 19 years, towing my 2010 camper/travel trailer that has a dry weight of 7800, GVWR of 9750 and tongue weight of 1005 lbs with a WDH. I've had to modify this by adding F-350 springs front and rear as well as air helper springs in the rear, Hellwig sway bars and a DPTuner tune. As well as adding some other goods like an upgraded trans cooler, cooler thermostat and an OEM clutch type LSD. But I've got 3 cars that are, 2 are 2001 and 1 is 2005. But I'm tired of constantly having to fix them and just want one newer vehicle. After having my Excursion for 19 years I really enjoy that size of truck and would love to pick up a used 2018+ Expedition Max for towing in place of the Excursion.

So where I'm going with this is I'm not afraid to modify my truck to make it fit the bill. I mention that because I've done some research and know that I would be best served by purchasing a 2018+ that did NOT have CCD and had the HD towing package. Unfortunately I don't see many options for supporting my required tongue weight of 1005 lbs. I see upgraded Bilsteins as an option but don't see any aftermarket air helper spring setups available. I do see Sumosprings. And not having purchased a 2018+ Exp Max yet I can't even begin to conceive a plan to make my own air helper setup. Or if it is at all possible for me to engineer my own. But that's why I'm reaching out for input from you all.

Anything I get, whether it is a 2018+ Exp Max or F-150, I plan to install larger intercooler, radiator if necessary, oil cooler, trans cooler, etc., to allow me to actually pull this size camper. So I get the full picture of towing requirements. Just missing the actual rear suspension limitations/fixes.

So, if I may ask, have any of you towed something that heavy with your Exp Max, have you been able to do so level and have you been able to find any acceptable modifications to allow this?

If not, then I will most likely walk away from my dream of continuing on in the Excursion type fashion and go with an F-150 that I know can handle it. I just don't want to invest in an Exp Max only to have to sell it.

Thank you in advance for any input.

 

[jjscsix]

I tow a travel trailer with a 6800# dry weight. It pulls it very well. But you are over the limit on tongue weight and no doubt over on actual weight when loaded up.

I would go with a F150 with the 13,000 lb trailer rating if I were you. I have a friend who tows with an F150 set up like that and I’m amazed at how well his truck rides and drives without a trailer.

 

[techdude99]

You're definitely over the recommended limit, but you have options. I Googled air bag suspension 2018 Expedition and this was on the first page: https://airbagit.com/products/fbx-r-for-6600

If you get everything level and don't overload your cargo area, you should be okay. The Excursions were awesome trucks. Too bad they were only offered for a short time.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

That 1000 lb tongue weight plus the required WDH will leave an Expedition with about 500 lb payload including driver, passenger and dog.

 

[Rob6805]

Those trailer weights are way too high for an Expedition. I'd be looking at a Super Duty pickup.

 

[GlennSullivan]

I agree with Rob's comment above. The Excursion is far and away a different vehicle than the Expedition. I towed with a 2002 7.3 PSD Excursion for 12 years. Mine was basically stock except for Superchips Tune, Hellwig sway bars and bump stops. Great long distance runner with that 44 gallon tank whether towing or not. I never felt my Excursion move around on the road like my Expedition does.

I think the biggest problem you are going to run into is the axle capacities / tongue weight. If memory serves the Excursion rear axle capacity is over 5300 lbs, while the Expedition is rated at 4300 something.

You will be much better off with an F250 towing that kind of weight.

 

[absolutezero273c]

All, thanks for your input.
- jjscsix, thanks for sharing your 6800 lb trailer pulls well. That gives me confidence pulling my trailer. Also appreciate your input on the F-150.
- techdude99, thanks for sharing the air bag link. I will check with them this week to see what their product is rated at. You share my philosophy as well regarding towing limits. I also see these as 'recommendations' and believe it's possible to push the limits a little. Albeit cautiously. I have to believe these recommendations aren't the absolute failure point. Perhaps it causes additional wear and tear that has to be monitored.
-Left Coast Geek, you're spot on. It would be my wife and the 2 dogs most of the time. Kids might come along occasionally. That's why I'm hesitant to go the F-150 route. Need room for everyone.
-Rob6805, I know my Excursion is closer to the Superduty equivalent but seating, of course, is as limited as an F-150. Not to mention I'm really tired of paying the higher cost of diesel. My other 2 cars require premium fuel and that is worse than diesel, IIRC, now. So I'm REALLY looking forward to NOT paying the almost $1 difference in my area between Regular and Premium. And also the added cost of diesel as I mentioned.

I'm looking forward to getting away with Regular while using it as my daily. And then, of course, would use premium when towing.

I'm most definitely sold on the Exp Max now. And my wife and I have discussed, since I started this thread, that it would make sense to get a smaller camper/travel trailer next year. We bought this large of a camper to make sure the kids were comfortable and wanted to continue camping with us. But now that they are older they don't camp with us as often and it doesn't make sense for us to pull a 37 ft camper for the two of us and two dogs. So the weight issue may become a moot point soon enough.

Thanks, All!

 

[absolutezero273c]

-GlennSullivan, Thanks. I agree that a superduty chassis would be the best fit. But as mentioned above, I'm tired of paying the added cost of diesel if there is a less costly alternative. But I value the interior volume of the Exp Max more than anything. I also feel I'm so close to the recommended limit, and don't need to by buying a superduty that is rated at 2-3x the Exp Max.
I do also agree the axle rating is something to be mindful of. For example, I'm aware of the expected life of a 2001 superduty rear axle and have rebuilt mine on my Excursion in a timely fashion. So with the added stresses on an Exp Max axle I would be performing preventative maintenance and rebuilding that earlier than recommended. Maybe even see if there is a rear diff cover that has added cooling capacity/fins.

All of my maintenance I stay up on in hopes of eliminating any failures during our trips.

But we will most likely be downsizing our travel trailer as mentioned.

I do have to agree with you. The 44 gallon fuel tank is wonderful thing on the Excursion!

Thanks

 

[JasonH]

My Expedition EL pulls my 7,800 GVWR like a champ. It's 33 ft with the hitch and we're at 7,000 lbs loaded. I think you can find plenty of campers within the Expeditions tow rating for two people. Definitely get the Max, as it has a bigger fuel tank and more stability.

 

[GlennSullivan]

-GlennSullivan, Thanks. I agree that a superduty chassis would be the best fit. But as mentioned above, I'm tired of paying the added cost of diesel if there is a less costly alternative. But I value the interior volume of the Exp Max more than anything. I also feel I'm so close to the recommended limit, and don't need to by buying a superduty that is rated at 2-3x the Exp Max.
I do also agree the axle rating is something to be mindful of. For example, I'm aware of the expected life of a 2001 superduty rear axle and have rebuilt mine on my Excursion in a timely fashion. So with the added stresses on an Exp Max axle I would be performing preventative maintenance and rebuilding that earlier than recommended. Maybe even see if there is a rear diff cover that has added cooling capacity/fins.

All of my maintenance I stay up on in hopes of eliminating any failures during our trips.

But we will most likely be downsizing our travel trailer as mentioned.

I do have to agree with you. The 44 gallon fuel tank is wonderful thing on the Excursion!

Thanks

When on a non towing trip my 2017 gets very close to 500 miles between fillups, not the 700 my Excursion got, but Im older now and a break at 500 miles is good. Unfortunately, when towing (on premium), that drops to 300 miles between fuel stops. While Im on the subject, you should keep in mind that can run the T/T Expy in low load situations on 87 (which I do) you NEED TO plan on running Premium in all loaded / towing situations. Besides being the MFG recomendation, you will get substantially better mileage towing with premium than regular. I am getting close to 13mpg towing a 6600 load. I’ve pulled my car trailer empty (1650lb) with both reg and premium and the difference is 2.5mpg.

 

[byathread]

Given your trailer weight and the premium fuel requirement when towing (for best performance with any eco boost, so more spendy than diesel typically right of the Mississippi) I think you're in the F250 territory, minimum. I wouldn't be happy with anything less myself. Our TT was 7000 and the IRS on the expedition just squats with those tongue weights... It wasn't terrible, but, another 250-300 lbs in your use case necessitates a solid higher capacity rear axle. YMMV/Good luck!

 

[BetterDays36]

There is a label under you hitch that will give you 2 values, 1 with load distribution and one with out. My 2020 is 9300 with 6000 with out.

 

[Grizguy]

I dont think there would be much difference between the f150 and expedition. I have hauled with both. Neither will pull as well as your excursion. I was hoping, the way they advertised the MAX in the earlier days, would be more like the excursion. It is just a big car. put a trailer on and the gas milage goes to 9mpg. Does not seam to mater how small the trailer is. About the same with the f150. I liked pulling with my f350 dually. Currently have f550 gas.. Wow.. it sucks gas.. rides HARD.. but pulls very well.

 

[LG_123]

I’ve towed a 10,000lb, 34’ trailer with a 2019 Expedition Max and had zero issues from coast to coast. You should certainly be fine.

The most critical number is the max payload of the 4 tires, which is probably at least 2200 lbs and should absolutely not be exceeded. But all the other “limits” are somewhat arbitrary.

The aerodynamics of the trailer matter more than its weight for towing; I now have a 7500# loaded trailer that’s much taller and has caused some overheating in Cape Breton grades so your ideas for extra cooling would be good if you’ll have a tall box trailer

 

[absolutezero273c]

When on a non towing trip my 2017 gets very close to 500 miles between fillups, not the 700 my Excursion got, but Im older now and a break at 500 miles is good. Unfortunately, when towing (on premium), that drops to 300 miles between fuel stops. While Im on the subject, you should keep in mind that can run the T/T Expy in low load situations on 87 (which I do) you NEED TO plan on running Premium in all loaded / towing situations. Besides being the MFG recomendation, you will get substantially better mileage towing with premium than regular. I am getting close to 13mpg towing a 6600 load. I’ve pulled my car trailer empty (1650lb) with both reg and premium and the difference is 2.5mpg.

Thanks. I will plan to run Premium when towing. And I get similar mileage with my Excursion. 10-12 mpg towing my travel trailer. The variance depends on the terrain.

 

[absolutezero273c]

I dont think there would be much difference between the f150 and expedition. I have hauled with both. Neither will pull as well as your excursion. I was hoping, the way they advertised the MAX in the earlier days, would be more like the excursion. It is just a big car. put a trailer on and the gas milage goes to 9mpg. Does not seam to mater how small the trailer is. About the same with the f150. I liked pulling with my f350 dually. Currently have f550 gas.. Wow.. it sucks gas.. rides HARD.. but pulls very well.

Grizguy, I appreciate your input. I also agree that my excursion would tow better than them. I'm just tired of parts being NLA, like having to fabricate my own parts. Like cooling hoses for example. Not to mention, the ride of an F-350 isn't the greatest when unloaded. There were some Carli springs I was looking at upgrading to, that are known to greatly enhance/improve the ride, but I need to wrap up all my projects. Not start more, lol.

 

[absolutezero273c]

I’ve towed a 10,000lb, 34’ trailer with a 2019 Expedition Max and had zero issues from coast to coast. You should certainly be fine.

The most critical number is the max payload of the 4 tires, which is probably at least 2200 lbs and should absolutely not be exceeded. But all the other “limits” are somewhat arbitrary.

The aerodynamics of the trailer matter more than its weight for towing; I now have a 7500# loaded trailer that’s much taller and has caused some overheating in Cape Breton grades so your ideas for extra cooling would be good if you’ll have a tall box trailer

LG_123, Thank you for sharing your experience! That is exactly the feedback I was looking for. I know I will be asking any 'new to me' Exp Max to work hard so I do plan to make upgrades for cooling, etc., maybe a brake upgrade, too, to minimize the wear and tear. And definitely tires that can handle the load!

 

[Left Coast Geek]

for hard actual numbers, this is the 2019 Expedition Towing Guide. presumably they've printed these for other years too.

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/resources/general/pdf/guides/19Towing_Ford_Expedition_r1_Dec21.pdf

note things like the 60 sq ft max frontal area with HD Tow.

note the 900 lb tongue weight for WDH with the max tow pacakge INCLUDES THE WEIGHT OF THE HITCH, WDH hitches often are close to 100 lbs on their own.

me, I'm towing a ~5000 lb trailer with ~500 lb tongue weight, and I use an Andersen light WDH/Sway control hitch to reduce the tendency for the short wheel base expedition on CCDS to bobble on bumps.

If you exceed the GCWR or max tow weights for your vehicle and get in an accident, your insurance company is not going to care what spring upgrades or tires you were running, the vehicle rating is based on /everything/ including axle bearings, brakes, frame, etc. Your vehicle will be deemed overloaded, and they will likely deny any claims.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

btw, the Excursion was essentially a short wheelbase F250 Super Duty. The Expedition is based on the F150 but has IRS front and rear so there's a lot of differences.

 

[GlennSullivan]

btw, the Excursion was essentially a short wheelbase F250 Super Duty. The Expedition is based on the F150 but has IRS front and rear so there's a lot of differences.

Yes, from someone that towed with a 2002 diesel Excursion for 8 years and 2017 Expedition for 4 years the 2 scenarios are day and night.