No breaks for Ford

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dlcorbett, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. carymccarr

    carymccarr Full Access Members

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    But if V8’s get the same gas mileage then why is ford using v6’s for gas mileage?


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  2. Tom Aldridge

    Tom Aldridge New Member

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    Sales are a direct result of quality and Ford has dropped the ball in that area for the past couple decades, it seems.

    I inherited a 2004 Eddie Bauer from a deceased relative in 2018 with 41K miles and, based on this Expy, it's evident Ford's problems go back to at least that time..

    Last Ford I owned was my late father's 98 Taurus SHO and it was totaled with 50K miles but it had a fair share of 'non covered' failures during warranty, even with his extended warranty. Ford dealers apparently deny warranty per FoMoCo directives, hoping that people will just go away.
    I didn't mourn the loss much....I've driven the Yamaha powered SHO models and that 98 was a dud from the get go.

    My fav Ford was a 71 LTD 2dr HT, ordered with P code package / 429 police interceptor (said so on air cleaner) and ran like a bat out of hades.
    Helluva car and tough as nails. Had that 2 tons of car in the air more than a few times, it landed and kept on going until sold at 250K miles.

    Back to 2004 Expy EB... It's a central Florida vehicle, garage kept vehicle.
    Has the common Ford 9.75 diff whine that hadn't been warrantied (dealer told owner it was normal and he believed them)....added red line oil to quiet it down.
    Replaced doa RCM and pass side belt pretensioner (RCM just died, no accident...pretensioner is variable resistance solder joint)
    Replaced doa PAM and have one back sensor that may bad, waiting to be changed due to excessive disassembly required to access them
    Changed the old TPM sensors (confirmed dead batts) but codes indicate TPM is bad too so no learning the new ones.
    Just today, had to reflash the PCM because it mysteriously became corrupted and would not talk to anything except IDS. Good thing I have VCM2/IDS that could get it to wake up so the various memory areas could be erased and overwritten.

    Various other things wrong/repaired...mirror motors AND control switch bad, rear HVAC damper motors, rear seat motors, 4 window motors are SO slow (not lube or insufficient volts/current, checked)...replaced driver's and like new, AC clutch bearing squealing when compressor not running, rear window gasket shrunk and leaking profusely (til I heated, stretched and glued it in place with 3M weatherstrip cement, pulled out entire sunroof module to fix up all the things that fell apart in that crappy mechanism...I can continue but it's pointless.
    These are not maintenance item issues. The vehicle was maintained better than schedule in manual.

    I donated my 2001 Suburban LT3 away because it had 180K miles and looked worse than the Expy, but ran without issues...figured this can't be too bad to fix with such short miles and kept up by my engineer cousin, with all records.

    BOY, was I wrong!
    The Suburban handled better, rode better, got MUCH better fuel econ (avg 5MPG calc method), had more power, no repair costs, lower maintenance, etc. etc. etc., at 180K miles ...and it had a very hard life before I got it.
    Suburban comparison is at 180K mi vs Expy at 42K mi. 5MPG avg better in Suburban with 5.3 320HP engine. With this 'advanced' OHC Ford 5.4, why the low MPG and low power??
    Ford wasn't doing something right if an old tech cam in block V8 can do much better than it's 3 year newer drive trains...just saying.

    I am not a GM fan (disliked them in 60s/70s) but their trucks in this timeframe (1999-2007) is worlds better than Ford, based on some personal experience.... I have had several and been around many more of the GMT800 trucks (currently have a 2007 GMC 3500HD Classic SRW Duramax). I have a few Ford guy friends with Superduty of the same basic design and my 290K mile GMC is holding up much better than theirs with half the mileage and mine with little but routine maintenance.
    1 tie rod end and one pittman arm, 4 glow plugs that I don't consider 'normal' (although the Duramax LBZ 2 second heatup glow plugs tend to die in 200K miles or so) Brakes, tires, shocks, fluids, filters are normal. and my GMC HD is SO much quieter than even my 2004 Expy EB....no rattles, tight as a nail.

    Ford has declined A LOT since my late 60s and early 70s big block hipo cars, IMO....it may be just the cars that I had.
    Sounds like Ford is still not getting the message.
    They'd gotten REALLY cheap, one reason they could survive without taking the Govt. bailouts (multiple vendor changes during production runs in a year is one thing that sux for autos) but they apparently let it bite them in 'the end'.

    I used to like Ford when many didn't so I hope they can get their act together.
    Gotta remember though, I was part of the muscle car generation so I am biased in that direction.
    Still have a 70 Hemi Dodge Super Bee and I like MOPAR the best :)

    -j
     
  3. TobyU

    TobyU Full Access Members

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    I don't even begin to try to figure out what these manufacturers are thinking. Maybe it's because there's a large portion of society that Embraces new things likes change, and the latest and greatest high-tech is what they want. A lot of people who buy a $58,000 vehicle don't seem to have any problem putting $2,500 repair into it down the road somewhere between 80 and 120000 Miles. I'll pass. A 5.3 is never going to have a turbo go out.
     
  4. TobyU

    TobyU Full Access Members

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    I forgot to mention in my love for turbos but they do suck the fuel when you get your foot into them. Kind of like a four-barrel Quadrajet Carburetor. It will get better fuel mileage if you keep your foot out of it and keep the back barrels closed. The primaries on a Quadrajet 4-barrel are smaller than the primaries on a two barrel Rochester. Get that foot heavy into it though and the gas gauge starts moving quickly.
     
  5. dlcorbett

    dlcorbett Full Access Members

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    For power and economy. You can go the armada and sequoia route and get all the power you want on shitty mileage, or go the gm route and go the smaller displacement and finnicky feature(cylinder deactivation) route and get better mileage but slower accel and lower reliability. The 6.2 has decent mileage and great power but the amount of wrk to eke out better mileage was probably not worth the it to redevelop and improve the old 6.2 ford had when they can tune the 3.5l to any amt of power they want. I also think they should offer the 2.7v6 and 5.0l v8 to appeal to different consumers and increase sales, but no ford employees read these forums which is a shame.
     
  6. JExpedition07

    JExpedition07 Ultimate Member Supporting Member

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    The Ford 6.2 isn’t particularly old, released in 2011. It’s more of a work truck engine. It’s a heavy cast block and 2V for torque and long service life. Lower MPG unloaded but shines under load, great in the Super Duty. GM’s 6.2 is aluminum, pushrod and lighter (more compact and powerful, but less reliable). Ford had hotter cams in the F-150 6.2, 411 horsepower it was pretty fun in the half tons. It moves the Super Duties fast for the heavy lugs they are.


     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  7. TobyU

    TobyU Full Access Members

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    I never had a 6 to but sounds like the engine for me. Give me a heavy cast-iron block that's only a two valve that's durable as hell and I'll take it. The 6.8 V10 was a great engine but they were not as durable as V8s
    They should never make a V10 engine I don't even care if it's a Dodge Viper. Yes it's bad and fast and all that but V10 should not be made. They are inherently unbalanced and when you have to add things like balance shafts and everything else is just stupid when you could simply make a V8 with bigger bore. The 6.8 had a smaller displacement than a good handful of V8 from the past. No reason to make that into a 10. Just put the new technology on the same displacement of the older V8s.Hell, the 460 was a pretty darn good engine but I certainly preferred the Chevy 454.
     
  8. RogerD1959

    RogerD1959 Full Access Members

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    Mid 2020, so go the rumors, the Excursion is to be available with gas and Diesel options.

    Now, to be sure, way, way, way, back in the day when I was 10 or 15, before Cars, Trucks, and Airplanes. An Expedition as we called them, well they took at least 2 dozen horses, men, 6 or 7 wagons, lots of provisions, and could last for months! An Excursion was usually, 2 horses, 1 wagon, 3 kids, 1 man, and his wife, on a day ride to town and back for provisions. That said, why did Ford give the smaller one the bigger name, and the bigger one the smaller name?? Anybody from Ford care to comment??

    For those who think this is NOT important. 9 long, tenuous, tension, filled years I argued with a cohort I know in Texas. That the massive 6 MPG everywhere, any where, did not matter where, it only got 6 MPG period, gasoline sucking monster we rented in 2005, I insisted was a Expedition, besides I paid the bill to rent it so, I should know. He said it was an Excursion! There were lots of hang up's, on one or the other, phone arguments over this, whatzit called again, during those 9 years! Actually during those 9 years it was more of a reason to rib each other, after catching up, and a reason neither of us wanted to end it by finding out for sure what the whatzit, was for sure. As luck would have it, a year or two ago, we are both watching TV, same program, different local markets, same time zone and different channels. Suddenly one of the whatzit called monsters is in the program we are both watching, roughly a thousand miles apart, I think we both said there's one at the same time, two minutes the back and forth starts, even got a bit tense when the driver walked to the back, blocked the name plate, then the actor moved, no S**t, whatzit called was called an Excursion! Pooped the wind right out of my sails, sank my dingy down the drain right then and there! I still say, it aint right! Ford, seriously, what were you thinking? Its all bass akwards! I do so want to see this 2020 Fords coming out with though.
     
  9. GTNator

    GTNator Full Access Members

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    As long as they don’t mess up the iconic Mustang!


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  10. Flexpedition

    Flexpedition Full Access Members

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    Are you talking about the electric 4-door Mustang?
     

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