Off-road in '17 EL 4WD - steep, rutted climbs (videos - link fixed)

[shinysideup2]

As for the rear you are stuck with the Bilstein 4600 from an older model Expedition. This like the 5110 you will reuse the lower springperch,spring and top mount.
The 4600 is not an adjustable height shock.

Bilstein 24-197724 Shock Absorber https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009FU7ERS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_z-IXBb4TCEBTP

Now to achieve the 1” lift on the rear you will need to utilize the aluminum lift collar from the 5100 shock. If you go with the 5100 front you can just use the collar from that on the rear and set your spring clip to the highest setting (I believe) on the front.

Hey @Black. I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on suspension. I'm going to go with the 6112 to start, as you mentioned (thanks for the tip!). For the rears, you mention that older model Expedition 4600's will work. Would you happen to know if rear shock fitment is generally the same for all 3rd gens? Knowing this would open up some other options too (such as the Rancho QuickLift with 9000's, 3/4" lift). Thanks!

 

[Black]

Hey @Black. I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on suspension. I'm going to go with the 6112 to start, as you mentioned (thanks for the tip!). For the rears, you mention that older model Expedition 4600's will work. Would you happen to know if rear shock fitment is generally the same for all 3rd gens? Knowing this would open up some other options too (such as the Rancho QuickLift with 9000's, 3/4" lift). Thanks!

Best I can tell Rears are identical in dimension and mounting. The OEMs are now the same part across the years.
The only difference I can find is the new model OEM shock has the lower spring perch attached to the shock body. Whereas the older models and aftermarket utilize a a removable perch. But the old shocks and perches are no where to be found and OEM calls for the new model. Though the aftermarket Bilsteins and some others still call for you to reuse your perch.
So if you are just getting shocks you’ll need a perch. If you are using something like the Rancho quicklift that is a full unit that will not be an issue.

Hoping after Christmas I’ll have some spare money to get mine done.
I will be doing wheels, tires, shocks/struts, rear spacer, and UCAs all at once. So I am not tearing it apart multiple times so it is a bit of a costly venture.

 

[jeff kushner]

Excellent post and tanks for showing some of us, what our trucks might do if required.

I found your observations re: Turbo/V8 very interesting and to a degree, predictable. I say that because you were doing "work" which required a heavy flywheel and low end torque....neither of which are stalwarts of the turbo design although they did make several concessions to help mitigate the lack of low end power.

I would think had you been doing mountain side sweeper turns at speed, the gracefulness of the turbo spinning at high speeds as you shift electronically would have to be appreciated although the V8 could never match it.

I previously got stuck once in my 1st v8 expy....lay a comforter over the 2' of snow and tucked it under my front tires as best as I could, then put it in 4lo and let off the brake and it climbed to freedom! I'm not sure that the turbo would do the same so easily....

Good post,

jeff

 

[shinysideup2]

Thanks Jeff. The problem I'm having with the turbo engine on low-speed off-road/crawling is not so much about a lack of torque on the low end as it is about imprecise throttle control. You're right - if the turbo is constantly spooled up in higher speed maneuvers, this isn't as much of a problem.

But when in 4Lo, trying to balance between a) idling slowly up a hill and over rocks and ruts of varying size, to b) feathering the throttle just enough to bump over a rock or rut, the torque can sometimes sneak up as the turbo spools up just off-idle, then I have to use the brakes excessively (NOT smooth) or use both feet. The same issue applies when trying to gently and precisely back a trailer into a parking spot.

I'm a big fan of torquey NA engines (e.g. Nissan's V6s - VQ30DE, VQ35DE - I've actually never owned a V8). At any given RPM, any specific throttle position will return a precise and predictable amount of torque to the wheels. With turbo engines, on the other hand, at a given RPM and throttle position, torque varies and can "sneak up" as the turbo spools up. I can't quite get over my dislike for that lack of predictability. I had an early edition 2007 BMW 335i (3.0 turbo) after owning a '99 Maxima that I raced extensively, and completely regretted switching to a turbo engine in part due to my disdain for the lag in BMW's early 3.0 turbo engines. I drove a 2014 530d the other day and was impressed with how they mitigated lag in that turbo diesel engine. I wish Ford's Coyote 5.0 V8 was offered in the Expedition.

Turbos seem over-rated for every-day driving, but I suppose it's what the consumer market has been demanding as of late.

Good idea with the comforter. I'll have to remember that one if we ever find ourselves stuck in deep snow.

Excellent post and tanks for showing some of us, what our trucks might do if required.

I found your observations re: Turbo/V8 very interesting and to a degree, predictable. I say that because you were doing "work" which required a heavy flywheel and low end torque....neither of which are stalwarts of the turbo design although they did make several concessions to help mitigate the lack of low end power.

I would think had you been doing mountain side sweeper turns at speed, the gracefulness of the turbo spinning at high speeds as you shift electronically would have to be appreciated although the V8 could never match it.

I previously got stuck once in my 1st v8 expy....lay a comforter over the 2' of snow and tucked it under my front tires as best as I could, then put it in 4lo and let off the brake and it climbed to freedom! I'm not sure that the turbo would do the same so easily....

Good post,

jeff

 

[JExpedition07]

While I’ve driven the ecoboost I’ve never off road driven in one. Ford’s 5.4L 3V Triton is about as torquey as they come for low end and mid range torque output on a N/A V8 engine, it’s a cast iron brute. This is in part due to its long marathon stroke. When you put it into 4L it feels like your driving a tank on tracks, you don’t even have to touch the gas pedal. Throttle input is smooth and controlled if you put in some pedal and it’s an enjoyable combo with the ControlTrac. I think you’ll learn to work with your rig better as you drive more despite the difference in low end. Ive been watching your thread and like to see you pushing the limits on this vehicle, always fun.

 

[jeff kushner]

" as torquey as they come for low end and mid range torque output on a N/A V8 engine, it’s a cast iron brute. This is in part due to its long marathon stroke."

Harley learned this years ago.....very long stroke, piston larger than fist, proceed to step three.....and they produce even today, the single easiest bike to learn how to ride on, even easier then the Honda Rebels and such....because they have huge rotating mass slunge very low making balance easy and that inertia of that mass makes stalling one, nearly impossible!

No question in this application (mountain climbing), the beast of a V8 is king....at least it's the engine I'd want.

I used to think that my other Expys felt like that "Mighty Mike" toy we had as kids. That jeep-thing would climb nearly anything! They were tank-like to me too...I'll have to try the 3.5 just to see....never had it in 4lo other than testing it out.

jeff

 

[Black]

Anyone used their hill descent control yet?
I am not familiar with the system and how it works.
I used mine for the first time over the weekend and it seemed a bit akward. Felt as if the front brakes would clamp hard let off, clamp hard again.
It was loud and not very smooth. I should have paid attention to what angle I was going down but I felt I was much better handling it on my own feathering the brake.

 

[shinysideup2]

Anyone used their hill descent control yet?

Hill Descent Control is very awkward for me too. I can't seem to ever get the vehicle to descend at the speed that I want it to. The brake pedal becomes extremely sensitive due to the back-pressure on the hydraulics caused by the HDC system. Touching the brakes while in HDC causes sudden over-braking which is jarring for the passengers.

For slow, off-road hill descents, I much prefer using engine braking in 4Lo + gear selection for speed control. In my old 4Runner this also worked well, and the rear locker helped over uneven/rutted descents where 2 opposite wheels might lift off the ground.

 

[Fullhouse4wd]

Great posts. Also have 3rd row family and dogs to boot. Definitely want to do a similar build with an EL and am looking around.

Some off road driving schools actually teach using the left foot on the brake and fairly steady amount of throttle (brake-throttle modulation I think I've heard it called) pretty much the whole time off road. It reduces tire slippage and helps keep the engine RPMs up. Just 1 way of doing it. I'm not sure how that would mess with controltrac. My understanding it is either On or Off, so it might not interfere at all.

I'm pretty novicehere but interested in an Ex EL as an overland rig, hopefully without totally breaking the bank.

Notice any serious fluctuations in power with external temperature extremes?


Thanks for the fun videos. I'll definitely watch more if you post em.

 

[shinysideup2]

@Munkiebunz3 . Did you figure out the clunk after the installation of your skid plates? I just installed my transmission skid plate (RCI) which bumps right up against one of the exhaust hangers. I need to figure out how to get a hole cut out to make room for the exhaust to move around.





Did you ever figure out how to resolve this contact?

I'm loving the little screams in the background there. Looks like a lot of fun. I just got the RCI engine & transmission skid plates installed. I'm having a small clunk upon starting now so I'm going to check my motor mounts. I have a similar wish list as you on what to do next.