PATS issue, no start, no crank.

Jlwaltripsr22

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SJB Smart Junction Box! I thinks it's the in cabin one on the passenger side! Having these issues with my 07' EB EL starts with PATS light blinking rapidly, no start no crank! Power supply fuse/relay was blown. Replaced it the rapid red light went out! I now have a wrench and traction control blinking lights! Engine light came on in begining and is still on! Throwing no codes! Checked, tested, replaced and swapped relays and fuses one at a time! Driving me crazy!
 

inmanlanier

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NEW ISSUE - Not sure if PATS or not. The PATS lights are functioning properly.

A couple of weeks ago, I had intermittent no crank symptoms. Turn the key, nothing (however all lights, fan, other "ON" functions fine). The first few events I'd simply turn the key back off, then back on and it would crank fine. One time, I had to cycle the gear shifter - after that it started. Later, nothing would work (didn't think of trying the 2nd key). My guess was the relay, but not worth messing with. Had a local shop scheduled for 100K stuff (coolant, serpentine belt and plugs) so I asked him to check it out. The day before the appt - it cranked and started - I drove to the shop and left it (no repeat while there). The battery is months old; all checked out fine to him. He replaced with Motorcraft (per my request) - they only had rebuilds (arghh). This was Monday a week ago. It's been fine since. I have the old starter.

Yesterday away from the house first crank nothing, 2nd crank fine. I made another stop for lunch. After lunch came home. Today I went to start - first try started cranking then after perhaps 1 second (no change in key position) cranking stopped (before it lit off and ran). That was a few hours ago. Since then I've checked out the PATs lights. With both keys all systems fine - no crank. All other functions are perfect. Per the above note, I pulled and reinserted the 5A PATS fuse. No change. Nothing - shifter cycling does nothing, multiple key cycles nothing.

At this point since I think PATS is fine, I wish to install a jumper wire with a pushbutton that I can run inside. It's wet outside now (truck in driveway - I was about to put it in my garage with lift!). Does anyone know the routing of the start wire that connects to the starter (not the line high amp voltage, but the 12V lead that is the crank signal from keyswitch, through shifterswitch as enabled via PATS). I want to run from the battery to a pushbutton then to the relay wire and test.

Any input? Thanks!
 

inmanlanier

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Update - I finally did test - when manually energizing the starter solenoid (either by running 12V across the solenoid) or simply pulling the relay in the relay/fuse box front of the engine compartment (just behind the radiator) and jumping the contacts - it cranks and fires up every time. It then stays running.

At a point in my life where I just don't want to mess with this crap anymore - I reached out to local dude that's purportedly good (and when I gave him my notes - his questions and approach seemed good). I scheduled to take the truck to his shop this morning.

Naturally, today I did my needle nose pliers jumper across the relay contacts and it fired up. I drove it over - it ran fine. The shop tested - and naturally - every time they turned the key it started on demand (aren't all intermittent problems controlled by Murphy?! -for the last 4 days it has NOT cranked anytime I use the key!!!!). Then he hooked up to read codes - there were alot of faults in the communications error family (i.e. canbuss stuff). He researched on a forum he ties into and those errors are tied to the PCM. For grins he pulled the PCM relay and tried cranking - no crank. So obviously the PCM is somehow involved in the start function (as validated by wiring diagrams). Yes, clearly it would not run after cranking - he just wanted to see if it at least would crank. Since it did not he did the cheap and easy next step - since the relay is potentially suspect - maybe it's involved. So... on that hunch, he got two new OEM relays - replaced both the PCM circuit and the start/crank circuit relay. Again - no issues. He shared with me what he did. I agreed with him until we see smoke, we've go to try and eliminate potential causes. Although I hate hunt and peck - when the parts are cheap and easy to swap - I concur with that methodology. Tomorrow AM I'll pick it up. We've not been able to validate cause - but this is a reasonable next step. We'll see what happens.

C'mon - no one else been here? I see another topic today (sounds same) - I'll put a link to this discussion there to see what happens.
 

Vtomic

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New issue relating to this topic. 07 expy - started off by cranking continuously until I remove the key completely. I got it to start by spraying starting fluid while cranking but dies right away. After trying a few days and cranking it numerous times it stopped cranking all together and the anti-theft light blinks rapidly.

Gave up and had it towed to the dealership. According to the ford tech they needed to replace the pats transceiver. Once that was replaced it still has the issue and is not recognizing the keys. Ford tech is saying that they now need to replace the cluster. Does this sound common or normal since the cost of that is in the 700$ range I don't want to throw parts at it. Thanks for any help.
 

inmanlanier

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Update on my situation... Ignition switch checked out fine - this leaves the ECM/PCM or the transmission switch. The symptoms are now very repeatable. After two starts and runs (for just a few minutes) - most times the 3rd attempt to start is a no-crank - always the 4th attempt will not crank.
Based on the communication codes as a clue (hopefully not a red herring) - the ECM connector was disconnected - all pins cleaned and re-connected. THE ECM IS IN THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT!!! WHAT A DUMB MOVE. Since then, no repeat of symptoms. Have had it for two days. I have my needle nose pliers in the car - should needed, I simply remove the relay and jumper the start pins to get it to crank. I'll post again after a couple of week.
 

inmanlanier

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@Vtomic - sounds like they are not troubleshooting - just hunting and pecking. What idiots - when the PATs is replaced they have to enable the keys to the new system (as I understand it). Are you saying they haven't done that yet? If the keys are not recognized, then of course it won't run.

If they have, then I'd insist they put your old PATS back in and credit you towards other repairs because that's not the issue. One part does not cause another part to fail.

Your starting fluid sounds just like it's supposed to work - as I understand in all scenarios where the car is not being enabled to start/run - the injectors are not energized. As such, if you can crank and spray another fuel (starting fluid) - it will do just what you said.

Since you are actually able to crank - you may be down to the ECM or as in my instance, some sort of bad connection somewhere (I still need more time to verify that).
 

inmanlanier

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Ran several errands yesterday, multiple restarts. No issues. Looking Like the connection was the issue. Good luck to others with these symptoms.
 
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