Rivets in roof

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sjwhiteley

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It does seem like the 2018 had a bunch of stuff later 4th Gen MYs don't (engine cover, a cd player, covers under the roof rails, etc.). But we also had halogen puddle lamps we had to swap for LEDs on our own, we got to deal with the dancing side mirrors, we had the plastic oil pan, etc...so there are highs and lows.
Heh. Seems like you don't get something for nothing...
 

balthisar

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Those aren't spot welds, but rather self piercing rivets (SPR's). Ford doesn't do a whole lot of aluminum spot welding, and certainly not on the roof ditch. This is actually probably better than a spot weld, because spot welds can have porosity and cracks (they're not supposed to, but sometimes do), and are an avenue for water to ingress. SPR's don't penetrate all the way through. Frankly, I'd worry more about the adhesive effectiveness along the joint where the roof meets the bodysides; without the overhem sealer or trim piece, the missing redundancy could admit a water leak if the glue has a skip in it.
 

mrmustang

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Those aren't spot welds, but rather self piercing rivets (SPR's). Ford doesn't do a whole lot of aluminum spot welding, and certainly not on the roof ditch. This is actually probably better than a spot weld, because spot welds can have porosity and cracks (they're not supposed to, but sometimes do), and are an avenue for water to ingress. SPR's don't penetrate all the way through. Frankly, I'd worry more about the adhesive effectiveness along the joint where the roof meets the bodysides; without the overhem sealer or trim piece, the missing redundancy could admit a water leak if the glue has a skip in it.
As the retired body shop owner here, I can assure you, the panels in question (not all, but the roof panel to side panel) are originally resistance spot welded (RSW), and not self piercing rivets from the factory. During impact repairs, Ford does advise to use self piercing pop rivets, along with the proper adhesive, as there are few shops equipped to do proper RSW (resistance spot weld) on Aluminum.
See the attached URL for the details of aluminum substructure repairs:

Bill
 

balthisar

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As the retired body shop owner here, I can assure you, the panels in question (not all, but the roof panel to side panel) are originally resistance spot welded (RSW), and not self piercing rivets from the factory. During impact repairs, Ford does advise to use self piercing pop rivets, along with the proper adhesive, as there are few shops equipped to do proper RSW (resistance spot weld) on Aluminum.
As a guy that puts tooling into our bodyshops, I can assure you that we provided no resistance welding equipment on current model Expedition (OP described a 2021 model). For current model, the roof is 100% self-piercing rivets. (Pop rivets are something else).
 

mrmustang

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As a guy that puts tooling into our bodyshops, I can assure you that we provided no resistance welding equipment on current model Expedition (OP described a 2021 model). For current model, the roof is 100% self-piercing rivets. (Pop rivets are something else).
I have the same on my old 2000 Expedition, and my 2010 Ford Explorer as well (having had the roof liner off on both in the past and being able to see the actual body bonding technique), no rivets used, sorry, what is shown in spot welds. Self piercing rivets require a sealer to be used to finish the repair areas off, as you can clearly see on the OP's pictures, no sealer is present. If you have line pictures with the unibody portion of the side panel and the roof being bonded together, by all means, post them, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it vs what I've seen with my own two eyes on mine, and customers vehicles as original from the factory.

Bill
 

Motorcity muscle

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As a guy that puts tooling into our bodyshops, I can assure you that we provided no resistance welding equipment on current model Expedition (OP described a 2021 model). For current model, the roof is 100% self-piercing rivets. (Pop rivets are something else).

Googled Ford's aluminum construction and they use self piercing rivets as Balthisar described. All spot welding equipment was removed and replaced with state of the art SPR. Have seen test on automotive adhesives and metal would tear before the joined pieces would separate.
 

Trainmaster

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An article including Ford's statement about its use of Self Piercing Rivets in new car construction and its recommended equipment for their repair:
 

mrmustang

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I humbly stand corrected, but still cannot fathom why the spot welds show on the inner panels with the interior roof trim removed on the vehicles I posted about earlier.
To pay it safe on my end, I've got a call out to an acquaintance who works at the stamping plant. If anything different comes up, I'll post it here.

Bill
 

balthisar

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To pay it safe on my end, I've got a call out to an acquaintance who works at the stamping plant. If anything different comes up, I'll post it here.
Hey, stuff changes. No big deal. Which stamping plant, by the way? They don't install the roof at the stamping plant. In any case, for previous model, it was RSW. For other steel products, it's RSW. Although, even F-150 and Super Duty have some RSW (front and rear of the roof), but are still mostly SPR along the ditch (and SPR pretty much everywhere else). We don't do a lot of aluminum welding.

As for overhem sealer, I'm thinking that yes, it should be present. Or a strip. I don't like to count on e-coat for exposed rivets. And given that I have one of these on order, I really want to get to the bottom of it. I've just asked our corporate product development static sealing expert what's going on with the roof ditch sealer. I'll post back when I hear back.
 

mrmustang

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Hey, stuff changes. No big deal. Which stamping plant, by the way? They don't install the roof at the stamping plant. In any case, for previous model, it was RSW. For other steel products, it's RSW. Although, even F-150 and Super Duty have some RSW (front and rear of the roof), but are still mostly SPR along the ditch (and SPR pretty much everywhere else). We don't do a lot of aluminum welding.

As for overhem sealer, I'm thinking that yes, it should be present. Or a strip. I don't like to count on e-coat for exposed rivets. And given that I have one of these on order, I really want to get to the bottom of it. I've just asked our corporate product development static sealing expert what's going on with the roof ditch sealer. I'll post back when I hear back.
I too have a 2022 on order, so it will be interesting to read what they have to say. Maybe ask them about the potential of long term galvanic action issues using the RSW. Will be curious to hear their thoughts.

Bill

PS: Rapid City
 

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