Ok just looking for random input. I have a 2104 expedition limited. I love it but...we are at 195k miles and it's starting to make a knocking noise when cold and I'm just randomly assuming at this point it's the timing belt. The cost of the repair and parts looks to be not much less than a rebuilt crate engine from Jasper or the like. So has anyone just went with the rebuilt engine and had good results? My truck is in great shape overall besides the typical rocker rust and bubbling paint on the hood and tailgate. Interior is mint. Is it worth it at this point or should I move on to another vehicle? Im even considering a low mile used explorer or Lincoln. I have the last year expy with the v8..really dont like the idea of a truck this big with anything less. Im thinking ahead as I haven't actually diagnosed the noise I'm hearing but just knowing the miles this truck has I'm thinking I need to have a plan.
Timing belt or rebuilt engine or new vehicle
- Thread starter blkmonday
- Start date
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It really depends on the rust that you can’t see. Is 11 years acceptable vehicle life where you live? I know that in the “rust belt” vehicles die an early death. I have 240k on that same engine in a Navigator. Is is a variable cam timing chain engine. If it only rattles when first started and does not burn much oil it is fixable.
Dustin Gebhardt
Full Access Members
Is the Jasper a new block? Are they using OEM parts? Likely a "no" to both questions. The Jasper will have a fresh set of bearings and rings, but the 5.4L engines don't often have issues with those to begin with. Personally, I'd stick with my engine and fix the ticking, which is likely a valvetrain (lifter or cam follower) or timing chain issue.
Lynnii2
Full Access Members
I have 2010 limited 1ed with 282,000 I had Brian do the timing timing chain job, lifters, cam followers, water pump, thermostat, high volume oil pump and a few other things. My engine does not burn oil and I'm on the original transmission. The engine is solid and just make sure to do oil change every 5,000 miles with 5w30 and good oil filter. I have put about 30,000 miles on it and it runs better than new to me.
JamaicaJoe
Full Access Members
There are no timing belts. Only timing chains, valve timing phasers and valve rockers/lifters to be concerned about. If you have a rattle at start up, turn off your HVAC including the defroster mode, entirely. The compressor clutch can make a similar noise to a timing rattle.
drankinatty
Member
Oh how fortuitous the question...
I just this past weekend finished the timing chain, phasers, VCT solenoid and oil pump job on an '05 at 254K miles. I'd purchased the Ford kit from amazon which at the time was a little over $800 (checked just a few days ago, and it's now about $1500 due to tariffs, etc..). The job is more a marathon than difficult, but you will need a fairly broad selection of tools, but tool kits are available for the crank timing, valve spring compression and locking the phasers for torquing. (all of the tools do the same job, but the cheaper the set you buy, the more Dremel time you can expect to clean up poor machining)
There are a number of possible causes of the noise you are hearing, but with 195K miles on your engine, if you haven't done a timing job before, you have likely broken (or eaten) one of the timing chain plastic guides (opposite from the tensioner side) and the noise you are hearing is the timing chain slapping against the front cover as tension on that side of the chain changes at idle. (my chain had dug darn near a 1/4" groove in the front cover -- should have done the job sooner, but procrastination and human nature seem to go hand in hand)
Long story short, even with 254K miles, and even after the motor ate both timing chain guides, with the new chains and phasers and VCT solenoids, the engine runs smoother and quieter than the day I drove it off the lot. If you go this route, I highly recommend the Mellings 340HV high-volume oil pump (you can replace it without dropping the oil pan with the front cover off). At hot idle it provides a true 30 psi (gauge about 5/8 up the arc) which is about 12 psi over the stock ford pump. This provides plenty of oil flow to keep the VCT solenoids and phasers quiet and well oiled.
I wouldn't want to think about what a shop would charge for labor for the job. An honest shop could very well charge for 30-40 hours if they do the job right. Other shops may claim 50+. I looked at long-blocks as well, but for the cost difference between the timing chains, solenoids and phasers (and plugs, oil pump, valve cover gaskets), it just made sense to try the timing job first. And, I'm glad I did. Engine runs like a sewing machine now.
If you are going to do the job (or or the mechanic you take it to), there is a great 4-part video series covering the job on youtube (fordmakoluco). He does a good job and covers about 90% of the entire operation, including torque specs, bolt sequences and even has links to the Ford kits and the tool kits. I can look up the link if needed.
Do a compression test before making the call. If your bottom-end is still in good shape, been well serviced through its life, the the cost of the full engine replacement isn't likely warranted. On the other hand, if you are down compression in one or more cylinders, it doesn't make sense to put chains and phasers on as a bandaid. The long block makes sense at that point.
Good luck with whatever direction you decide to go in.
(aside: in the old days when I first started building cars as a teenager, short-blocks were less than $400 [289-351] and long-blocks less than $600, but that was only 4+ decades ago. Harry's Hotrod Shop is still there in Grand Prairie. I'd hate to price them today... In those days, and I'll get chastised on a Ford forum, but my first car was a 1968 SS 396 El Camino with factory air, for $1200 cash. Man have times changed...)
I just this past weekend finished the timing chain, phasers, VCT solenoid and oil pump job on an '05 at 254K miles. I'd purchased the Ford kit from amazon which at the time was a little over $800 (checked just a few days ago, and it's now about $1500 due to tariffs, etc..). The job is more a marathon than difficult, but you will need a fairly broad selection of tools, but tool kits are available for the crank timing, valve spring compression and locking the phasers for torquing. (all of the tools do the same job, but the cheaper the set you buy, the more Dremel time you can expect to clean up poor machining)
There are a number of possible causes of the noise you are hearing, but with 195K miles on your engine, if you haven't done a timing job before, you have likely broken (or eaten) one of the timing chain plastic guides (opposite from the tensioner side) and the noise you are hearing is the timing chain slapping against the front cover as tension on that side of the chain changes at idle. (my chain had dug darn near a 1/4" groove in the front cover -- should have done the job sooner, but procrastination and human nature seem to go hand in hand)
Long story short, even with 254K miles, and even after the motor ate both timing chain guides, with the new chains and phasers and VCT solenoids, the engine runs smoother and quieter than the day I drove it off the lot. If you go this route, I highly recommend the Mellings 340HV high-volume oil pump (you can replace it without dropping the oil pan with the front cover off). At hot idle it provides a true 30 psi (gauge about 5/8 up the arc) which is about 12 psi over the stock ford pump. This provides plenty of oil flow to keep the VCT solenoids and phasers quiet and well oiled.
I wouldn't want to think about what a shop would charge for labor for the job. An honest shop could very well charge for 30-40 hours if they do the job right. Other shops may claim 50+. I looked at long-blocks as well, but for the cost difference between the timing chains, solenoids and phasers (and plugs, oil pump, valve cover gaskets), it just made sense to try the timing job first. And, I'm glad I did. Engine runs like a sewing machine now.
If you are going to do the job (or or the mechanic you take it to), there is a great 4-part video series covering the job on youtube (fordmakoluco). He does a good job and covers about 90% of the entire operation, including torque specs, bolt sequences and even has links to the Ford kits and the tool kits. I can look up the link if needed.
Do a compression test before making the call. If your bottom-end is still in good shape, been well serviced through its life, the the cost of the full engine replacement isn't likely warranted. On the other hand, if you are down compression in one or more cylinders, it doesn't make sense to put chains and phasers on as a bandaid. The long block makes sense at that point.
Good luck with whatever direction you decide to go in.
(aside: in the old days when I first started building cars as a teenager, short-blocks were less than $400 [289-351] and long-blocks less than $600, but that was only 4+ decades ago. Harry's Hotrod Shop is still there in Grand Prairie. I'd hate to price them today... In those days, and I'll get chastised on a Ford forum, but my first car was a 1968 SS 396 El Camino with factory air, for $1200 cash. Man have times changed...)
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