TSB 23-2250 - 2018-2023 Expedition/Navigator + Other Models - 10R80 Auto Trans + Others - Harsh/Delayed Engagement And/Or Harsh/Delayed Shift

[20Expy]

My 2020 was brought in 2 times already. The first time, they did the reprogram which is according to the TSB, but after a couple months, I had to bring it in again. They did the reprogram AGAIN and took no further action. I believe according to the TSB, if the first reprogram didn't work, they are supposed to move to the next step which is taking the valve body apart and cleaning it up? I asked the service advisor on the second visit about this with the TSB printed out and he said that they couldn't feel the clunks after the reprogram and that we have to drive it until it clunks again. He also added that some of the other customers had theirs reprogrammed 3 times before they move on to the next step which is valve body overhaul. Is this true, and what do I do? FYI, my powertrain warranty expires at the end of this year.

 

[Hellwig]

My 2020 was brought in 2 times already. The first time, they did the reprogram which is according to the TSB, but after a couple months, I had to bring it in again. They did the reprogram AGAIN and took no further action. I believe according to the TSB, if the first reprogram didn't work, they are supposed to move to the next step which is taking the valve body apart and cleaning it up? I asked the service advisor on the second visit about this with the TSB printed out and he said that they couldn't feel the clunks after the reprogram and that we have to drive it until it clunks again. He also added that some of the other customers had theirs reprogrammed 3 times before they move on to the next step which is valve body overhaul. Is this true, and what do I do? FYI, my powertrain warranty expires at the end of this year.

Right after your warranty expires, instantly the dealership would strongly push you to replace the valve body.

 

[20Expy]

Right after your warranty expires, instantly the dealership would strongly push you to replace the valve body.

Oh gawd, the service advisor even said, "Ford and the dealership will consider the records of past claims and problems to REDUCE the cost of repairs when your warranty expires." after I mentioned that my warranty is going to expire by the end of the year lol. Should I buy the ESP and if I do, will the cost be higher because I have a record of claims on my car on Ford's system? Or is the record only local to the dealership and I can buy the extended warranty from another Ford dealer in Canada who doesn't have my claim records?

EDIT: I don't think I can buy a warranty from U.S. dealers like Ziegler, Flood and all the other cheap places. When I go on their websites for estimates, they only include American States for location, hence why I don't think they're selling to Canadians.

 

[Hellwig]

Oh gawd, the service advisor even said, "Ford and the dealership will consider the records of past claims and problems to REDUCE the cost of repairs when your warranty expires." after I mentioned that my warranty is going to expire by the end of the year lol. Should I buy the ESP and if I do, will the cost be higher because I have a record of claims on my car on Ford's system? Or is the record only local to the dealership and I can buy the extended warranty from another Ford dealer in Canada who doesn't have my claim records?

EDIT: I don't think I can buy a warranty from U.S. dealers like Ziegler, Flood and all the other cheap places. When I go on their websites for estimates, they only include American States for location, hence why I don't think they're selling to Canadians.

Any repair in a Ford dealership is visible to all Ford dealerships. There are several levels of ESP plans and powertrain warranty is the cheapest.

 

[LegalBrief]

Any warranty work also extends your manufacturers warranty. Example if in the shop 20 days then you add 20 days to the warranty expiration date.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

Any warranty work also extends your manufacturers warranty. Example if in the shop 20 days then you add 20 days to the warranty expiration date.

Not true.

 

[ROBERT BONNER]

My 2024 has same behavior when it downshifts from 4 to 3 or 5 to 3. It looks a software problem to me.

Early on (2021) I spoke with a KTP PVT Engineer who was confident that it was software and that it was related to premature lock up of the torque converter clutch mid-shift and that the design engineers were focusing on the resulting damage inside the transmissions rather than focusing on root cause. He claimed at the time that under certain conditions, the transmission would begin a downshift with a "target" gear in mind and then "conditions" (throttle position, load, etc.) would change mid shift, causing a change in the target gear ratio. So, it would start out thinking it's going from 10 to 9, then, mid shift, the accelerator was pressed further and it would decide to go to 7. The total process would go long, time wise, because of hydraulic pressure drop from the initial shift choice slowing down the second shift choice. During that time, the computer assumes the shift is complete and declutches the torque converter due to an extremely aggressive strategy that tries to keep the torque converter locked at virtually all times that the transmission isn't shifting. Effectively completing the shift with the input shaft locked to the crankshaft....which certainly matched what I have been feeling.

But, alas, no software updates addressing the issue, just numerous TSB's replacing mechanical components.

 

[20Expy]

Early on (2021) I spoke with a KTP PVT Engineer who was confident that it was software and that it was related to premature lock up of the torque converter clutch mid-shift and that the design engineers were focusing on the resulting damage inside the transmissions rather than focusing on root cause. He claimed at the time that under certain conditions, the transmission would begin a downshift with a "target" gear in mind and then "conditions" (throttle position, load, etc.) would change mid shift, causing a change in the target gear ratio. So, it would start out thinking it's going from 10 to 9, then, mid shift, the accelerator was pressed further and it would decide to go to 7. The total process would go long, time wise, because of hydraulic pressure drop from the initial shift choice slowing down the second shift choice. During that time, the computer assumes the shift is complete and declutches the torque converter due to an extremely aggressive strategy that tries to keep the torque converter locked at virtually all times that the transmission isn't shifting. Effectively completing the shift with the input shaft locked to the crankshaft....which certainly matched what I have been feeling.

But, alas, no software updates addressing the issue, just numerous TSB's replacing mechanical components.

Interesting! Does it mean that aftermarket transmission only tunes would eliminate rough shifts completely and therefore not require CDF drum replacement if done early enough (in my case at 60,000km)?

 

[Hellwig]

Interesting! Does it mean that aftermarket transmission only tunes would eliminate rough shifts completely and therefore not require CDF drum replacement if done early enough (in my case at 60,000km)?

I highly doubt it. It's a design flaw.

 

[Polo08816]

Early on (2021) I spoke with a KTP PVT Engineer who was confident that it was software and that it was related to premature lock up of the torque converter clutch mid-shift and that the design engineers were focusing on the resulting damage inside the transmissions rather than focusing on root cause. He claimed at the time that under certain conditions, the transmission would begin a downshift with a "target" gear in mind and then "conditions" (throttle position, load, etc.) would change mid shift, causing a change in the target gear ratio. So, it would start out thinking it's going from 10 to 9, then, mid shift, the accelerator was pressed further and it would decide to go to 7. The total process would go long, time wise, because of hydraulic pressure drop from the initial shift choice slowing down the second shift choice. During that time, the computer assumes the shift is complete and declutches the torque converter due to an extremely aggressive strategy that tries to keep the torque converter locked at virtually all times that the transmission isn't shifting. Effectively completing the shift with the input shaft locked to the crankshaft....which certainly matched what I have been feeling.

But, alas, no software updates addressing the issue, just numerous TSB's replacing mechanical components.

Interesting.

Interesting! Does it mean that aftermarket transmission only tunes would eliminate rough shifts completely and therefore not require CDF drum replacement if done early enough (in my case at 60,000km)?

I highly doubt it. It's a design flaw.

Is it a physical design flaw or is it a programming design flaw?

You would think that the transmission should be nearly identical to the GM 10L80. GM's 10L80 seems to not have nearly as many rough shift issues.

However, could making a programming change to the transmission mid model year result in different fuel economy numbers? Would Ford get penalized for making a modification that could potential cause the vehicle not to achieve it's EPA ratings?