VIBRATION: Desperate: 2021 Expedition Platinum Max

[igorelik2020]

Desperate here! And Need help ! 2021 Ford Expedition Platinum Max 4X4, purchased with 9k miles, car was great in all aspects, I always maintained it. Out of warranty now, about a year and a half ago developed 2 types of vibrations: at idle and at drive (can be related but unknown at this point.) Dealer is pushing me around while charging for every visit. Been at number of shops, followed many leads.

-idle vibration: must warm the engine until RPM drops to 600-ish, and there comes a very low profile vibration, but it is noticeable, I can feel it in my seat, pedals, floor, etc. Front and rear passengers feel it as well, mostly in the seat and floor. Dealer looked at tires, also suggested changing all 3 mounts (2 motor and 1 trans) with around 3K estimate. I did it myself with OEM mounts, plus tons of other things (listed below), no change.

-drive vibration: as soon as I start driving over 10 mph it feels like I am running on a low profile rumble strip, it stays on at all time and speed.

Here is the list of things that were done so far:
-No check engine
-Tires: Hankook Dynapro , all new tires and road force balanced
-4 rims checked - true
-wheel alignment - done
-Throttle body - clean
-Fuel trims - checked
-Spark plugs - new
-Ignition coils - new
-2 Oil catch cans - installed
-Air filter - new
-Smoke test - done
-Carbon clean - done
-PCV valve - new
-2 motor mounts and 1 trans mount - new
-2 Turbos - replaced
-4 CV axels - new
-Transmission - rebuild 2 times
-Shudder Stop Fluid for transmission - added
-Main drive shaft - fully rebuilt in custom shaft shop
-Rear Diff - new fluid
-Updated software at Ford Dealer
-Performed: reset misfire monitor neutral profile Via Ford scanner
-etc.

I drive a lot, cannot force myself to ignore it when it’s there, it gets to me, I cannot think of anything else while driving. Been hunting this for about a year now, love the truck and dont want to follow millions of suggestions to sell it. To me selling is just passing the problem onto someone else, so i am still trying, still nothing. Followed many leads by dealer and various mechanics. I am now at about 10K in parts and labor. Every lead I was on - I thought "this is it" but no. I still feel like I am very close to finding it, but need direction and possibly help from members here.
There is no stupid suggestion, any help or lead is greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

Desperate here! And Need help ! 2021 Ford Expedition Platinum Max 4X4, purchased with 9k miles, car was great in all aspects, I always maintained it. Out of warranty now, about a year and a half ago developed 2 types of vibrations: at idle and at drive (can be related but unknown at this point.) Dealer is pushing me around while charging for every visit. Been at number of shops, followed many leads.

-idle vibration: must warm the engine until RPM drops to 600-ish, and there comes a very low profile vibration, but it is noticeable, I can feel it in my seat, pedals, floor, etc. Front and rear passengers feel it as well, mostly in the seat and floor. Dealer looked at tires, also suggested changing all 3 mounts (2 motor and 1 trans) with around 3K estimate. I did it myself with OEM mounts, plus tons of other things (listed below), no change.

-drive vibration: as soon as I start driving over 10 mph it feels like I am running on a low profile rumble strip, it stays on at all time and speed.

Here is the list of things that were done so far:
-No check engine
-Tires: Hankook Dynapro , all new tires and road force balanced
-4 rims checked - true
-wheel alignment - done
-Throttle body - clean
-Fuel trims - checked
-Spark plugs - new
-Ignition coils - new
-2 Oil catch cans - installed
-Air filter - new
-Smoke test - done
-Carbon clean - done
-PCV valve - new
-2 motor mounts and 1 trans mount - new
-2 Turbos - replaced
-4 CV axels - new
-Transmission - rebuild 2 times
-Shudder Stop Fluid for transmission - added
-Main drive shaft - fully rebuilt in custom shaft shop
-Rear Diff - new fluid
-Updated software at Ford Dealer
-Performed: reset misfire monitor neutral profile Via Ford scanner
-etc.

I drive a lot, cannot force myself to ignore it when it’s there, it gets to me, I cannot think of anything else while driving. Been hunting this for about a year now, love the truck and dont want to follow millions of suggestions to sell it. To me selling is just passing the problem onto someone else, so i am still trying, still nothing. Followed many leads by dealer and various mechanics. I am now at about 10K in parts and labor. Every lead I was on - I thought "this is it" but no. I still feel like I am very close to finding it, but need direction and possibly help from members here.
There is no stupid suggestion, any help or lead is greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

Any chance of tracking down prior owner(s) to see what warranty or private work was done?

Have you had the service history checked through Ford’s system? Any unusual repairs? Any accidents that could affect the alignment or suspension or frame?

Many years ago I had a friend that purchased a new Toyota Camry 4-door. He had a constant vibration when driving (never wrecked or damaged by him). He returned it to the dealer under warranty repeatedly with no luck.

He took the vehicle to a private suspension / alignment shop. They determined the suspension or unibody was partially deformed underneath, and attributed it to the ratchet tie-down straps used by the new-vehicle haulers that delivered the vehicles to the dealer. They told him that they had seen the issue before and showed him where the tie-down hooks were fastened, and then the ratchet-straps were probably overtightened.

He got rid of the vehicle.

 

[igorelik2020]

No tracking for previous owner, but it had an accident prior to me purchasing. It was hit into rear passenger side wheel / quarter panel / door. It was fixed and I drove it for about 30-40K miles after that with no issue. These vibrations developed later and slowly progressed into whatever it is now. I did take it for wheel alignment, it passed with no issue. Also, checked all wheels multiple times, no luck. Though hit into passenger rear keeps me thinking on rear differential, but I have no way of telling or diagnosing if this is it. Was watching few Videos of this shop in GA: https://youtu.be/0m_3nYdF4X0?si=yUPIV2m3dTVKLb1s. He is showing this cool Vibration Diagnostic tool that I wish someone in my area (NYC) has, I googled, asked around, chatGPT's, no luck. Trip to GA is 14 hours one way, otherwise I would do it.

 

[Fastcar]

Nice machine! Were it me, my first call would be to the maker and find out who he sold one to in your area. Is Baldwin Chevrolet still around? Maybe some race shop?

 

[JamaicaJoe]

The vibration does not occur in open loop? When it starts with the vibration, check if closed loop, if so, try disconnecting your MAF sensor to force back to open loop. You may have a vacuum leak, manifold induction leak (past the MAF), or some lean fuel delivery problem . I have something similar going on with my 2001.

"-idle vibration: must warm the engine until RPM drops to 600-ish, and there comes a very low profile vibration, but it is noticeable,"

 

[CoolViper777]

How are your wheel bearings? I didn't see them in the list of part replaced. We bought our 2019 Expy with 22K miles 2 years ago with a full extended warranty. Last year, after getting 4 new Pirelli Weather Active tires, started hearing/feeling a rumbling sound from the front when driving, it was speed dependent.

We thought it was the new tires, and Tire Rack replaced two of them. Didn't help. So, we switched to the Pirelli AS3, which didn't eliminate the noise. Turned out, it was the right front wheel bearing. That completely removed that rumbling strip sound and vibration. Get them checked, or check them yourself (you sound pretty mechanically inclined).

I will say, thank goodness for the extended warranty. As not only was the wheel bearing covered, but the AC evaporator, AC condensate leak, moonroof drain pipe leak, drivers cooling/heating mechanism, recent engine valve cover leak, etc. And now I see coolant disappearing. I don't know, but my 2011 Lexus LS460 (with 123K miles now), bought on the same day as the 2019 Expy, hasn't had ANY niggling or major issues like this much younger/many less miles Expy. Actually, none of my Lexus/Toyota vehicles have had any major issues, they just keep on piling on the miles 145K and 215K respectively for the ES330 and Solara.

Quality just isn't there for these new Ford vehicles. Or maybe it was built on a Monday or Friday...you know the rumours!

All I've replaced is mufflers, spark plugs, and tires. This Expy has brought new meaning to FORD = Fix or Repair Daily OR Found on Road Dead.

 

[heyjay]

The lane departure feature causes a mild “vibration” like a rumble strip when you get near a lane line. You’re could be faulty and is nearly always warning of a lane departure? A bit out there but you said there’s no stupid suggestions! Best wishes

 

[mx10166]

If you feel the concerning vibration at idle with the vehicle not moving you can conclude it has nothing to do with your tires, suspension, etc. It has to be within the engine or exhaust system. Could be a number of things....bad or clogged injector, bad spark plug, bad coil, sensor, exhaust manifold, loose pipe, etc.

 

[igorelik2020]

The vibration does not occur in open loop? When it starts with the vibration, check if closed loop, if so, try disconnecting your MAF sensor to force back to open loop. You may have a vacuum leak, manifold induction leak (past the MAF), or some lean fuel delivery problem . I have something similar going on with my 2001.

"-idle vibration: must warm the engine until RPM drops to 600-ish, and there comes a very low profile vibration, but it is noticeable,"

Thank you for your comment, much appreciated. Regarding vacuum leak: one of the shops did a smoke test, showed no issue. Same for lean fuel trims, all was checked by Ford scanner, showed no issue. I am not sure what is open loop, need to research it. Any additional help is appreciated.

 

[igorelik2020]

The lane departure feature causes a mild “vibration” like a rumble strip when you get near a lane line. You’re could be faulty and is nearly always warning of a lane departure? A bit out there but you said there’s no stupid suggestions! Best wishes

Thank you for your comment, much appreciated. I actually NEVER used "lane departure" feature, as I like to drive myself. But your suggestion is very valid. how do I go about checking this or eliminating this theory ? Any help is appreciated.

 

[Budders Dad]

Desperate here! And Need help ! 2021 Ford Expedition Platinum Max 4X4, purchased with 9k miles, car was great in all aspects, I always maintained it. Out of warranty now, about a year and a half ago developed 2 types of vibrations: at idle and at drive (can be related but unknown at this point.) Dealer is pushing me around while charging for every visit. Been at number of shops, followed many leads.

-idle vibration: must warm the engine until RPM drops to 600-ish, and there comes a very low profile vibration, but it is noticeable, I can feel it in my seat, pedals, floor, etc. Front and rear passengers feel it as well, mostly in the seat and floor. Dealer looked at tires, also suggested changing all 3 mounts (2 motor and 1 trans) with around 3K estimate. I did it myself with OEM mounts, plus tons of other things (listed below), no change.

-drive vibration: as soon as I start driving over 10 mph it feels like I am running on a low profile rumble strip, it stays on at all time and speed.

Here is the list of things that were done so far:
-No check engine
-Tires: Hankook Dynapro , all new tires and road force balanced
-4 rims checked - true
-wheel alignment - done
-Throttle body - clean
-Fuel trims - checked
-Spark plugs - new
-Ignition coils - new
-2 Oil catch cans - installed
-Air filter - new
-Smoke test - done
-Carbon clean - done
-PCV valve - new
-2 motor mounts and 1 trans mount - new
-2 Turbos - replaced
-4 CV axels - new
-Transmission - rebuild 2 times
-Shudder Stop Fluid for transmission - added
-Main drive shaft - fully rebuilt in custom shaft shop
-Rear Diff - new fluid
-Updated software at Ford Dealer
-Performed: reset misfire monitor neutral profile Via Ford scanner
-etc.

I drive a lot, cannot force myself to ignore it when it’s there, it gets to me, I cannot think of anything else while driving. Been hunting this for about a year now, love the truck and dont want to follow millions of suggestions to sell it. To me selling is just passing the problem onto someone else, so i am still trying, still nothing. Followed many leads by dealer and various mechanics. I am now at about 10K in parts and labor. Every lead I was on - I thought "this is it" but no. I still feel like I am very close to finding it, but need direction and possibly help from members here.
There is no stupid suggestion, any help or lead is greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

Do you know if the vibration occurs at a RPM? If it does, can you duplicate it in neutral, by reving the engine to that RPM?

Take a look at the harmonic balancer on the front of the crankshaft. Does the rubber dampening material look dry rotted or cracked or unevenly distributed? Try to look at it when the engine is running and see if you can see any wobble.

When you detect the vibration while driving, let off the accelerator, put it in neutral and coast. If the vibration is still there, it may be driveline related. If the vibration calms down, it may be engine related. You may need to drive to a greater speed than the vibration occurs, before shifting to neutral and coasting down to the speed where you were detecting the vibration. If the vibration does calm down, try revving the engine while your coasting along, to see if the vibration occurs.

I used to work as a technician specialist with a high line car manufacturer and I chased vibrations for years.

 

[igorelik2020]

How are your wheel bearings? I didn't see them in the list of part replaced. We bought our 2019 Expy with 22K miles 2 years ago with a full extended warranty. Last year, after getting 4 new Pirelli Weather Active tires, started hearing/feeling a rumbling sound from the front when driving, it was speed dependent.

We thought it was the new tires, and Tire Rack replaced two of them. Didn't help. So, we switched to the Pirelli AS3, which didn't eliminate the noise. Turned out, it was the right front wheel bearing. That completely removed that rumbling strip sound and vibration. Get them checked, or check them yourself (you sound pretty mechanically inclined).

I will say, thank goodness for the extended warranty. As not only was the wheel bearing covered, but the AC evaporator, AC condensate leak, moonroof drain pipe leak, drivers cooling/heating mechanism, recent engine valve cover leak, etc. And now I see coolant disappearing. I don't know, but my 2011 Lexus LS460 (with 123K miles now), bought on the same day as the 2019 Expy, hasn't had ANY niggling or major issues like this much younger/many less miles Expy. Actually, none of my Lexus/Toyota vehicles have had any major issues, they just keep on piling on the miles 145K and 215K respectively for the ES330 and Solara.

Quality just isn't there for these new Ford vehicles. Or maybe it was built on a Monday or Friday...you know the rumours!

All I've replaced is mufflers, spark plugs, and tires. This Expy has brought new meaning to FORD = Fix or Repair Daily OR Found on Road Dead.

Thank you for your comment, much appreciated. As far as I know, wheel bearings were checked. Usually when I brought it to shops they immediately think "wheels", so tires get balanced, rims checked, bearing checked, wheels spinned, noises listened, etc. And this is on all 4 wheels. Also, there is no winding noise that anyone can hear, otherwise this would have been almost too easy to spot. Any additional comments are appreciated.

 

[igorelik2020]

Do you know if the vibration occurs at a RPM? If it does, can you duplicate it in neutral, by reving the engine to that RPM?

Take a look at the harmonic balancer on the front of the crankshaft. Does the rubber dampening material look dry rotted or cracked or unevenly distributed? Try to look at it when the engine is running and see if you can see any wobble.

When you detect the vibration while driving, let off the accelerator, put it in neutral and coast. If the vibration is still there, it may be driveline related. If the vibration calms down, it may be engine related. You may need to drive to a greater speed than the vibration occurs, before shifting to neutral and coasting down to the speed where you were detecting the vibration. If the vibration does calm down, try revving the engine while your coasting along, to see if the vibration occurs.

I used to work as a technician specialist with a high line car manufacturer and I chased vibrations for years.

Thank you for your comment, much appreciated.
1. Idle vibration: it seems to be starting when engine worms up and then I can visually see RPM drops to 600-ish. If I step on a gas right there slightly just to raise RPMs - vibration goes away. So it is very obvious right at that lowest RPM level. When I drive and pull to a stop on a warm engine - obviously RPM drops at that same 600-ish, and vibration is back, both in gear / in park / in neutral, does not matter.

2. While Driving vibration: while coasting it does not matter in gear or in neutral - vibration does not change. I did not try to rev the engine during coasting, but will try this as soon as NYC snow storm clears. Also, vibration stays on after 10-15 mph at all time and speed, does not change. Any additional comments are appreciated.

 

[JamaicaJoe]

Thank you for your comment, much appreciated. Regarding vacuum leak: one of the shops did a smoke test, showed no issue. Same for lean fuel trims, all was checked by Ford scanner, showed no issue. I am not sure what is open loop, need to research it. Any additional help is appreciated.

Open loop is the mode the ECU meters fuel air mixture when the engine is cold. It is a predetermined map of F/A mixture for theoretically ideal combustion for the cold engine. However it ignores the MAF sensor and O2 sensors and makes no correction for those parameters. Within about 4 minutes the engine temperature rises to a set point, the ECU goes closed loop and that is when the MAF and 02 sensors start to indicate to the ECU to make short and long term fuel trim adjustments. If you have a bad sensor MAF or 02, then the driveability suffers while the ECU tries to make corrections wildly. If you have air leaks in manifold vacuum, induction plenum between MAF and throttle body, these can also cause problems. In an older vehicle hoses and plastic ducts can crack letting in air that the MAF has not metered. Same can happen on exhaust side. There is a very specific TSB for smoke testing and I am not certain every shop is testing every point of leakage. Plus when the engine vibrates, tiny cracks in those manifold intake hoses and plenums can open up. I am dealing with this on my 2001 right now. More leaks than a submarine with a screen door.

 

[JamaicaJoe]

I should add that the ECO boost probably has some additional sensors for the boost and a lot more plumbing to have leaks. I have also read that the intercooler sometimes gets choked up with water in the bottom. You might research that.

 

[igorelik2020]

If you feel the concerning vibration at idle with the vehicle not moving you can conclude it has nothing to do with your tires, suspension, etc. It has to be within the engine or exhaust system. Could be a number of things....bad or clogged injector, bad spark plug, bad coil, sensor, exhaust manifold, loose pipe, etc.

Thank you for your comment, much appreciated. Sounds like all items you have mentioned were checked at least few times by number of shops I took it to. Spark plug and coils I changed myself, and ordered from Ford OEM Parts online. Car was scanned via Ford scanner by not only dealer but also a private shop that has Ford OEM scanner, nothing obvious was found. Any additional comments are appreciated.

 

[igorelik2020]

Do you know if the vibration occurs at a RPM? If it does, can you duplicate it in neutral, by reving the engine to that RPM?

Take a look at the harmonic balancer on the front of the crankshaft. Does the rubber dampening material look dry rotted or cracked or unevenly distributed? Try to look at it when the engine is running and see if you can see any wobble.

When you detect the vibration while driving, let off the accelerator, put it in neutral and coast. If the vibration is still there, it may be driveline related. If the vibration calms down, it may be engine related. You may need to drive to a greater speed than the vibration occurs, before shifting to neutral and coasting down to the speed where you were detecting the vibration. If the vibration does calm down, try revving the engine while your coasting along, to see if the vibration occurs.

I used to work as a technician specialist with a high line car manufacturer and I chased vibrations for years.

Thank you for your comment, much appreciated. Yes, harmonic balancer was checked few times, but only visually, there is no any visual damage or cracks or wobble. I can still replace it just to get this item out of the way. I have to mention that shop that inspected front of the engine, belts and pulleys, noticed idler pulley sort of wobbling, so I replace it myself with OEM pulley, brand new one, no change. Any additional comments are appreciated.

 

[igorelik2020]

I should add that the ECO boost probably has some additional sensors for the boost and a lot more plumbing to have leaks. I have also read that the intercooler sometimes gets choked up with water in the bottom. You might research that.

Yes, I have done Google research and it appears to be an older model issue. New 2018- last dont have this issue, intercooler has been re-designed, as they say.

 

[Budders Dad]

Thank you for your comment, much appreciated.
1. Idle vibration: it seems to be starting when engine worms up and then I can visually see RPM drops to 600-ish. If I step on a gas right there slightly just to raise RPMs - vibration goes away. So it is very obvious right at that lowest RPM level. When I drive and pull to a stop on a warm engine - obviously RPM drops at that same 600-ish, and vibration is back, both in gear / in park / in neutral, does not matter.

2. While Driving vibration: while coasting it does not matter in gear or in neutral - vibration does not change. I did not try to rev the engine during coasting, but will try this as soon as NYC snow storm clears. Also, vibration stays on after 10-15 mph at all time and speed, does not change. Any additional comments are appreciated.

The only other things that come to mind are the engine oil level. If it is too high, the crankshaft can dip into it and cause a vibration. And the other would be the torque converter; which is difficult to determine if it is causing the vibration while driving. I disconnected a torque converter on a car and pushed it back towards the transmission so I could run the engine to check for the vibration. It confirmed the engine was the cause. However, I wouldn’t recommend trying that unless you are really confident you can do something like that. And you can’t run the engine very long and it will rev much quicker than you might imagine.

 

[ROBERT BONNER]

Wow, lots of people stuck indoors the last couple of days. I read through all of the comments above looking for something that NO one mentioned; but, drives me crazy on all of my Fords after a few years of operation:

A/C Compressor vibration. I don't have a good explanation mechanically for "why" it is; but, I can tell you from experience that after 4 or 5 years everyone of my fords start to gradually increase the amplitude of A/C compressor vibration to the point of becoming annoying. It's a low enough frequency that you can feel it in the seat, steering wheel, accelerator pedal, etc. I just started to notice it on my '20 Expedition this past fall. It's easy to diagnose, turn off the A/C. At idle, have someone watch the A/C clutch while you are sitting in the vehicle and notice the difference when it cuts in and out.

The first time I noticed it was in my 2007 F150, it became particularly noticeable when the truck became low on refrigerant from a leaky Schrader valve. It was more noticeable because it was running more frequently at the lower refrigerant levels.

Note that this becomes increasingly annoying over time because I'm convinced that the amplitude increases steadily over time. I won't even run the A/C in my 2012 GT500 anymore because of it; yet, when I put a manifold on that A/C system, low and high pressures are completely normal.

Expanding a little bit (I've thought about it a lot), since A/C compressors are hard mounted to the Engines, the isolation is provided by the motor mounts, which, apparently, are not tuned to manage the frequency, amplitude and vector of the long term A/C compressor vibration...at all.

As for effective solutions, replacing the compressor with a NEW (not reman) compressor should cure it, temporarily. Personally, I just get annoyed and ignore it, except in my GT 500 where I turn it off, drop the top, and put the hammer down.