What was Ford thinking by adding back in the tailgate?

[GlennSullivan]

I grew up in a family where our primary vehicle was a station wagon and being a GM family, we did not have one with the Ford Dual Gate Tailgate where you could open the tailgate as a door for easy loading and unloading or a tailgate for, well, sitting on (tailgating).

I have 3 full size SUVs and one of the things I like most about them over pickups (besides the cargo staying dry and warm), is they are super easy to load, unload and access cargo as there is not a "gate" keeping you away from the cargo area. With the 2025 Expedition, Ford is now going back 50 years by re-adding a tailgate, albeit a smaller one.

Do you think they did this to provide a small sitting area for "tailgating" (we all now have inexpensive folding chairs for that) or did they do it to shorten the length the rear hatch door so it could fully open in low height garages? This was accomplished with the Excursion using split lower doors. Add one convenience, remove another more important one, at least to me.

And don't get me started on "You can have your lower tailgate any color, as long as you choose black" - on a $90K vehicle.

 

[dlcorbett]

I think what's more telling is that Ford must've got more positive feedback for the split tailgate than adopting air suspension as ford clearly investedmost of their dev money on it. Also, it's weird to me that they force the black tailgate applique, but not offer a same color option, a red exterior paint option or a black roof option. I honestly think the black applique would work if the roof was also black.

 

[bb37]

The upper part of the tailgate on the 2025s is any color you want as long as it's black. The lower part is body color in every image I've seen.

I have a sister who was a customer service rep for Ohio Bell Telephone back in the 1960s. The standard Western Electric Model 500 desk telephone that was issued to all new Ohio Bell customers was black. You had to pay extra for a phone in any other color besides black. Not relevant to the conversation, but it came to mind.

I think Ford did this to set them apart from the competition. I understand that the high-end BMW SUVs have a split tailgate. No, the Expedition is not a BMW, but the Lincoln Navigator, which has the same feature, tries to compete in BMW markets. I can see it being a useful feature for the way I use my Expedition. Am I going to buy a 2025 just to get this feature? No. Do I think the new design makes liftover a problem? Well, maybe. Not as bad as a pickup truck.

Yes, opening the tailgate in a garage is a problem. It always was on my 2015. With my 2024, I set the opening height (thank you, Ford, for that feature) so that it doesn't hit the garage door.

As I recall, the Excursion had "Dutch doors". The upper half opened like a hatch opening while the lower half was split in two with each half opening to the side. My 1997 Chevy Astro was this way. I worried that the "triple" point where the three panels met would eventually leak, but it never did.

I remember the full-size Ford wagons from the 1960s with dual-gate. Handy feature, though heavy. Lots of stress on the hinges and surrounding body work.

 

[dlcorbett]

From my test drives, the tailgate is great for the standard length. However, if you dont get the cargo shelf option, it's hard to reach in the max variant.

 

[SunnySunshine]

Our family checked out the new vehicles since our 2024 is a lemon. We like the tailgate. Nice place to sit and also set food on while eating out without the hassle of needing to set up an extra table or taking out folding chairs. However we aren't a huge fan of the colours in the back.

I think what's more telling is that Ford must've got more positive feedback for the split tailgate than adopting air suspension as ford clearly investedmost of their dev money on it. Also, it's weird to me that they force the black tailgate applique, but not offer a same color option, a red exterior paint option or a black roof option. I honestly think the black applique would work if the roof was also black.

I have no clue if this is true or not but before we bought our 2024, we've looked at other brands too. With GM, people seem to say the air bags used for the air suspensions have very limited life spans. I've even seen complaints of people saying sometimes the air suspension and the air pump would fail during winter forcing them to drive at the lowest suspension setting that really is only there to facilitate getting in and out of the vehicle, and not for driving.

 

[shane_th_ee]

They were thinking people might want to open the rear hatch without hitting their trailer’s tongue jack.

 

[sixstring]

I don't get the gloss black on the back hatch. I actually hate it. That is the dirtiest part of the vehicle. That material is prone to light scratching and staining. Look at the pillars that have it on the gen 4's. How can anyone say it looks good? It looks like shit.

Thank gosh that it doesnt have a black top too. I don't understand why manufacturers are doing this. they force these stupid colors on us like they force dei. My wifes new white nautilus has a black top. Hate it.

The thing I like about the split gate is you can open the hatch without groceries rolling out when the hatch opens.

I dislike the split hatch because it is harder to load stuff like cases of water and other stuff. It is harder to reach deep into the rear storage area. I'm a senior, I cant just jump in the back to reach stuff.

What percentage of expy owners are going to tailgate? Who is going to sit up there when you can just bring a more comfortable chair in your big suv?

They make these changes without thinking about the majority of the people.

 

[sanman28]

GM has it too, albeit smaller.
Just wrap it to match if you can.

 

[Calidad]

The split tailgate is far more than just a novelty trick. The weakest part of a wagon’s style body is the giant hole in the back. A floating hatch provides zero structural integrity.

However!! Once you add a structural element across the opening you greatly increase the strength of that giant hole in the back of the vehicle.

The tailgate is used primarily as a structural element in these wagons. However!!! As an active family that does stuff in places that are not flat.. The tailgate is instrumental in keeping our gear from falling out into the snow, mud or dirt every time we open the rear hatch. Oh and yes the tailgate works great as a work bench, changing table, seat for putting boots on etc. All things my current non tail gate Expedition fails badly at.

 

[bb37]

With GM, people seem to say the air bags used for the air suspensions have very limited life spans.

Ford has had experience with this, too. Lincolns in the 1980s and 90s had air suspension. Seems like a lot of them failed due to the air bags developing leaks. If there were lots of warranty claims, Ford may still be feeling the pain.

What we need a hydropneumatic suspension like Citroen and other manufacturers have used. Adjustable ride height and the ability to raise one wheel to change a flat tire.

 

[The Chairman]

My wifes new white nautilus has a black top. Hate it.

Our 2019 Nautilus has a black top and we love it. Get many nice compliments on the color combo.
Looking to buy a new Nautilus or Aviator and we want the black top again. Have to find the right combo with availability.

 

[Danm355]

Our family checked out the new vehicles since our 2024 is a lemon. We like the tailgate. Nice place to sit and also set food on while eating out without the hassle of needing to set up an extra table or taking out folding chairs. However we aren't a huge fan of the colours in the back.


I have no clue if this is true or not but before we bought our 2024, we've looked at other brands too. With GM, people seem to say the air bags used for the air suspensions have very limited life spans. I've even seen complaints of people saying sometimes the air suspension and the air pump would fail during winter forcing them to drive at the lowest suspension setting that really is only there to facilitate getting in and out of the vehicle, and not for driving.

I had a Lincoln Navigator with the air suspension and it's didn't last long Just before my 3 year lease was up something happened to the air suspension and the dealer wanted $1500 to repair it. I said no thanks and left and stopped at a Firestone shop and the mechanic looked at it and told me he could fix it for $300. He said it was the compressor and it has an O ring that wore out and he could take it apart and replace the O ring and I was out of there in 1 hour and was happy to pay the $300.

 

[dlcorbett]

What year was your navigator. I was a bit u sure when i bought a used 09 with 100k miles, the air suspension Surprisingly held up well for the 75k miles i drove on it.

 

[LanceExp2025]

Yep! sixstring. You are absolutely correct about Fords crummy idea to change back to a 2 piece tailgate! In January 2025, we were going to buy a 2025 Expy MAX and, even though no local dealers had any 2025's on their lots yet, I looked at every Ford internet video of the 2025's and just hated that 2 piece tailgate and hated the shinny black gob (mandatory) across the upper/back portion of that 2 piece tailgate too! In 1981 (when we were young) we bought a new Squire Ford Wagon w/ a 2 piece tailgate and loved that car! Now we're getting old and my wifes' shoulders are bad from bucking saddles up onto horses for 40 years so she now has little strength lifting above her shoulders and it's painful to do too. So, if we bought a 2025 Expy, she would have to lift groceries up/over the lower tailgate or swing it down and reach way OUT to place them back in there. Both BAD! We also both hated the 2025 Expy ALL Digital DASH and all digital center screen. It is so difficult and dangerous (by taking your eyes off the road to try and touch the screen in exactly the right spot) vs our 2024 Limited with the 12" screen which still has radio and A/C control knobs below it. Glad we found a 2024 Expy MAX Limited with HD Trailer Tow and 95% of all the stuff we wanted anyway. We just love our 2024 Expy MAX Limited! We sold our 2012 Expy EL Limited (that we loved too) and the only thing we liked better about it was, it rode a little smoother but maybe it did so also because it had Michelin tires on it vs Pirelli Scorpions on our 2024. Don't know? I'm pretty certain that Expy buyers are NOT doing much tail-gating anyway. Sounds good but just a useless sales gimmick, for us. We loved or 2012 1 Piece Tailgate and now our 2024 1 piece tailgate. All GOOD points guys! Thanks, Lance

 

[1badhabit]

People are acting like the tailgate is 4ft long. "Much" harder to reach in? Please.

 

[ROBERT BONNER]

We have a '20 MAX FX4 with a recently rebuilt 10 spd (under warranty) and a couple of months before I have to take it in for phasers....So, we were looking at '25's. Two hard no's for us, (1) the tailgate and (2) the absence of a limited slip on ALL MAX models. The problem for us with the tailgate is that my wife, 5' nothing literally can't reach over it if it's up and can't reach past it if it is down. And with no limited slip rear end, you end up with a 1x4 or 2x4 best case in tight spots.

There's a little bit of conversation above about the old Gen I, II, III air ride systems:

I drove all 3 back in the day, the Gen II was great, the Gen I not bad, and the Gen III was useless. The reason the company phased it out wasn't warranty, it was lack of customer interest in paying for it. The Gen II was a great vehicle with a big cost problem that caused tons of de-contenting leading into the Gen III. The Air ride was one of the casualties. As far as durability goes, all three of the early systems were more durable than the phasers and transmissions in the later gens, like EVERYTHING developed outside of Ford's USELESS Powertrain Division.

 

[LanceExp2025]

People are acting like the tailgate is 4ft long. "Much" harder to reach in? Please.

Yep 1badhabit: My wife and I are 2 of those "People" that think it's "Much" harder to reach into the 2025's. And, yes, with the 2025, 2-piece, lower tailgate 'down', it would be over a 4ft reach in. On our 2024 Expy MAX Limited, it is 3 ft from the liftgate seal to the back of the 3rd row seats. So, if the 2025 lower tailgate is 1'-6" (18") deep, that would make it a 4'-6" reach into the farthest forward portion of the rear cargo area. I do know that it was 'no big deal' when we were 35, in fact any drop-down tailgate was NEVER even given a second thought back then, but at 'over-70', things are much different and "Much Harder". Especially so for my wife at 5'-4" w/ bad shoulders. When we bought our 2012 Expedition EL w/ a 1 piece tailgate, it was such a wonderful improvement to be able to stand w/ your legs right behind the rear bumper and easily reach in the 3' to put stuff in and get stuff out easily. I would guess we were just 'spoiled' by this "GREAT", 1 piece Tailgate Ford idea, back then. So, NO we didn't want to go back in time to an antiquated design of a 2 piece tailgate. I see you have a 2025 Expy. How do you like the fully digital dash & screen, so far? We didn't like that but without even a 1-time test drive of a 2025, we had NO experience to make any judgement on it. Also, No offence taken. It's just us getting old and liking what's easiest for us now. Thanks, Lance.

 

[DieselMonk]

Had the split tailgate once, back in 98 on a different vehicle and didn’t like it and got rid of the truck within 18 months and got something else that had a single piece. I would not go back to the split tail gate. A non starter / deal breaker for me. Sure… you can sit on it, but that’s the only thing it’s got. Was one of the mayor reason I picked up a 24 and didn’t order a 25.

 

[1badhabit]

The problem for us with the tailgate is that my wife, 5' nothing literally can't reach over it if it's up and can't reach past it if it is down. And with no limited slip rear end, you end up with a 1x4 or 2x4 best case in tight spots.

My wife is 5' flat and has no problem at all lifting things over the tailgate when it's up.
Also, there is an e-locker for the rear.

Yep 1badhabit: My wife and I are 2 of those "People" that think it's "Much" harder to reach into the 2025's. And, yes, with the 2025, 2-piece, lower tailgate 'down', it would be over a 4ft reach in. On our 2024 Expy MAX Limited, it is 3 ft from the liftgate seal to the back of the 3rd row seats. So, if the 2025 lower tailgate is 1'-6" (18") deep, that would make it a 4'-6" reach into the farthest forward portion of the rear cargo area. I do know that it was 'no big deal' when we were 35, in fact any drop-down tailgate was NEVER even given a second thought back then, but at 'over-70', things are much different and "Much Harder". Especially so for my wife at 5'-4" w/ bad shoulders. When we bought our 2012 Expedition EL w/ a 1 piece tailgate, it was such a wonderful improvement to be able to stand w/ your legs right behind the rear bumper and easily reach in the 3' to put stuff in and get stuff out easily. I would guess we were just 'spoiled' by this "GREAT", 1 piece Tailgate Ford idea, back then. So, NO we didn't want to go back in time to an antiquated design of a 2 piece tailgate. I see you have a 2025 Expy. How do you like the fully digital dash & screen, so far? We didn't like that but without even a 1-time test drive of a 2025, we had NO experience to make any judgement on it. Also, No offence taken. It's just us getting old and liking what's easiest for us now. Thanks, Lance.

I get what you're saying but I don't see this as an antiquated design. The tailgate is 9.5" taller than the cargo floor when up and extends a hair over 9" from the bumper when down. Ford's marketing of having a great seat to sit on to watch the kids ballgame might have everyone envisioning a nightmare scenario with this. It's not like a pickup tailgate slapped on there. One nice thing it DOES do is make a continuous flat floor. There's no liftgate seal as a lip preventing you from sliding something in or out.

BTW, we're both in our mid 50s, and as much as it pains me to admit it, we're not totally unfamiliar with age induced physical limitations lol. Beats the alternative though.

The dash is a major departure from convention and was my only hesitation about getting one. After the first drive my reservations were gone. It's in a much more natural position, it's much more in your field of view while not obstructing your line of sight. It's a better solution than a windshield HUD in my opinion. However I'm not thrilled with the limited info that's up there and the lack of customization. I'm old school and would like to see more/better gauges, or at least the option for them.

 

[dlcorbett]

Is the tailgate about cart height when up...? I dont remember the Explorer getting any hate when it did this psuedo feature back in 02.