Rough idle after cold start...

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docraymund

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Its not wise to buy and buy parts you dont need. Money doesn't grow on trees. Buy tools instead. One thing about buying a brand new car is that you wont see your mechanic for a few years. But buying a used car -that's something else. It needs you. Just dont get frustrated with a few setbacks.
 

docraymund

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I have thought of something. Your misfire might be caused by a leaky brake vacuum booster. To test: (quoted from another site)

Detailed Topics

Vacuum Brake Boosters

How a vacuum brake booster works
A vacuum brake booster provides power assist to the brake system. As anyone who has experience a booster failure knows, the booster greatly reduces the effort required to stop the vehicle. Brake booster problems misdiagnosed, often set off a series of expensive events.

Vacuum brake boosters may be mysterious to the average person, but are quite simple in operation. The vacuum operated brake booster works much today as it did sixty-years ago. A combination of atmospheric pressure pushing and vacuum pulling on a diaphragm, multiplies the force a driver applies with the brake pedal.

Most brake boosters, have two or more chambers, divided by flexible diaphragms. The chamber is normally steel and the diaphragm is usually some form of rubber. They attach a metal push rod to the diaphragms and it moves with them. Vacuum, usually supplied by the engine and atmospheric pressure combine to provide the assistance during braking.

The booster at rest
vacuum_brake_booster_at_rest.jpg

When we are not applying the brakes, a two-way valve allows vacuum application on both sides of the diaphragm. An equal vacuum on both sides, causes a balance, and the diaphragm remains stationery. In this state we say that the booster is at rest. The shell of the booster acts as a reservoir, to store the engine vacuum. A check valve, in the inlet fitting, helps to maintain a vacuum when the engine accelerates.

Applying the brakes
vacuum_brake_booster_applied.jpg

When we press the brake pedal, the two-way valve also moves. This movement closes the passage to the rear of the diaphragm and vacuum applies only to the front. Simultaneously atmospheric pressure flows into the rear. Atmospheric pressure pushes the diaphragm and vacuum pulls it forward. The push rod also moves to apply the brakes, through themaster cylinder, attached to the front of the booster.

Releasing the brake pedal allow the internal spring to push the diaphragm and push rod back and operates the two-way valve. This valve blocks atmospheric pressure to the rear chamber. Simultaneously, it opens the chamber to vacuum. This evacuates the rear chamber and assist in returning the booster to a state of rest.

The system is robust and inherently failure resistant. If the valve, diaphragm or vacuum source fail, they have mechanically connected the push rod to the brake pedal and master cylinder. A damaged system reverts to manual brakes, with no power assist.

Types of failures
Most common booster failures are, a lack of assistance, noise or poor pedal return after release. Often a good booster is mis-diagnosed as bad. Needlessly replacing a good booster often occurs.

vacuum_booster_measure.jpg

To function properly, the brake booster needs a good source of a vacuum. The lack of a vacuum is more common than brake booster failure, when we have no power assist. Collapsed and cracked hoses are most common. Other issues include a plugged vacuum port in the intake and a bad check valve in the inlet. Before replacing a brake booster, we must always test the vacuum source at the brake booster. We do this with a vacuum tee and a vacuum gauge.

vacuum_brake_booster_leaking_diaphragm.jpg

Other brake booster failures include broken springs, ruptured diaphragms and leaking valves. When the diaphragm ruptures, atmospheric pressure leaks through and does not provide power assistance. A broken spring most often causes the brake pedal to not return fully when released. Brake lights staying on, are one possible symptom, and possibly overheated brakes.

vacuum_brake_block_hose.jpg

A ruptured diaphragm also allows, atmospheric pressure to enter the intake manifold. This creates a vacuum leak and causes the fuel/air mixture to lean out. Other than hard braking, another symptom is an engine misfire at idle, when we depress the brake pedal. Atmospheric pressure lowers the engine vacuum, by leaking through the diaphragm. It is simple to test for this. We can unplug the hose at the brake booster and block the end with our thumb. If temporarily unplugging the booster and blocking the hose solves the misfire, it shows a leaking booster.

Internal valve failure may result in a lack of braking assist or brakes that do not release, depending on the failure. We most often replace boosters as an assembly as repair in the field is not practical.

Testing the booster
We use a vacuum gauge to check for an adequate vacuum. The vacuum at the brake booster should be around 16-20 inches. Insufficient amounts can result from a restricted source and sometimes engine running problems. For instance a plugged catalytic converter can lower engine vacuum and result in poor brake booster performance. A bad vacuum leak in the intake may also cause a lower vacuum.

A leaking brake booster may also cause an engine to run badly. Leaks in the brake booster provide a vacuum leak to the engine. One quick test for leakage, is to turn the engine off and press the brake pedal. If the pedal still has one or two assisted applications before getting hard to press, likely no leak exists.

Another simple test is to apply the brake pedal several times without the engine running, to exhaust the vacuum. After the pedal becomes hard to push, hold it down and start the engine. A good booster, with an adequate vacuum will cause the pedal to drop slightly. This is because the booster greatly increases pressure applied by the pedal.
 

2008Limited

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I understand not throwing money at things (was more sarcasm/anger in terms of the statement). I own several other Fords, most of my experience is with Supercharged Thunderbirds 89-95 era however. I am a resident expert on those forums you might say. This is the first family gas powered truck, everything else we own/owned has been 7.3/6.0 diesel.

Also tend to believe it is a hose that is only affected under expansion rates of cold and hot engine temps or weather. Either that or, fuel pressure related and again influenced by temp. However I know little in terms of real experience with this platform, could be a plug/COP/injector on mine...might not. Again I am very green in terms of common failure.

Hopefully I hear something today that will give me direction from the dealership.

-Tim
 

Flexpedition

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Dropped the truck off last night at the purchasing dealer - I have 340 miles on the truck from purchase last Thursday (100 of those driving to and from the dealer). Put the keys in their service drop box only to notice I left the dome light on. Only 1 set of keys, no idea the keyless entry code. Most likely the killed battery will reset the codes and they will tell me it's fine.


-Tim

The truck will turn the dome lights off - accessory delay/battery saver feature. Think its 15-20 minutes. Dealer should be able to get you the door code as a courtesy. You'll want them to make & program another key for sure though.
 

2008Limited

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The truck will turn the dome lights off - accessory delay/battery saver feature. Think its 15-20 minutes. Dealer should be able to get you the door code as a courtesy. You'll want them to make & program another key for sure though.


Thanks for the FYI, gives me piece of mind.

-Tim
 

Bedrck47

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[QUOTE="2008Limited, post: 249594, member: 54447

Dropped the truck off last night at the purchasing dealer - I have 340 miles on the truck from purchase last Thursday (100 of those driving to and from the dealer). Put the keys in their service drop box only to notice I left the dome light on. Only 1 set of keys, no idea the keyless entry code. Most likely the killed battery will reset the codes and they will tell me it's fine.


-Tim[/QUOTE]

If you used the panel switch to turn the dome light on then it wont turn off.
If the light was on because you just closed the door then it will time out You can also press the last two buttons on the key pad and that will lock the doors and cause the light to go out
 

2008Limited

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I pressed the button on the over head lights to fill out the drop box form. Did the last 2 button Lock as well - know that one from other Ford ownership - light stayed on. I'm sure it killed the battery, but again outside of calling a locksmith it was pointless to worry at that point. Figured, it's at the shop, they have the tools, no need to worry. Might get a laugh if they try to sell me a battery...

-Tim
 

2008Limited

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Dealer just called - truck is repaired, said they had to replace 1 plug and 1 coil. Guessing they did the work based on the P0301 Code that was thrown. No charge for the repairs given the short ownership.

Hopefully that resolves the issues.

-Tim
 
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ricofrancois

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@2008Limited Great news and hope the problem is gone for good...

Well I thought I would close the loop on this one. The car never had a rough idle again but I decided to get a OBD2 Vyncs tracker / scanner which gave me the following info:
1) Fuel Mixture is lean
2) O2 sensor value out of range

Yesterday, when I took the car, I went to a 100 miles on the freeway with a lot of uphill. I started getting some ticking noise misfire with a flashing engine light. easing on the gas made the misfire stop and the flashing engine light stopped after 10 sec. I drove very easy for the rest of the trip and took the car to the shop this morning.

This could be an unrelated issue so I will wait and see what the mechanic says.
 
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2008Limited

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So far so good since the replacement of the #1 plug and coil at the dealership. The power band after that was a drastic change...suppose my lack of ever driving/riding in an Expy before the purchase made me unaware of what it was lacking.

Now I do at times feel slight hesitation, so for my peace of mind I believe I will run a few cans of seafoam through the system and then have all the plugs replaced. Then continue the process every 50K or so...from what I read that seems like good preventative measures.

Hope you sort yours out...hopefully it's a plug/coil issue similar to mine.

-Tim
 
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