Fuel Injectors ruined engine

[gigantapithic]

So I should be picking up the expy in a few days (Monday, Tuesday) after the #4 injector dumped fuel into the cylinder and seems to have caused major problems.

Anyway,

I'm left with the Ford dealer (under warranty) changing the #4 injector, and replacing the entire short block.

On top of this - I asked about swapping out the other 7 injectors under warranty so the money they just paid for the short block didn't go to waste in the next x many years if they failed. I was told they needed replaced as they were near end of life but not for the warranty reason (likely covering their butts in case it happens again.

So, I agreed to pay to have them replaced as it would be cheap since the engine was in bits anyway.

So they've changed 7 remaining fuel injectors, all spark plugs, an o2 sensor and the thermostat on top of a new short block costing me $1,100.00

So I'm wondering what else I should do as preventative?

What exactly is the "short block"

Should I have the coils changed?

Anything else of vital importance to do while they're in there?

Thanks!

 

[toms89]

So I should be picking up the expy in a few days (Monday, Tuesday) after the #4 injector dumped fuel into the cylinder and seems to have caused major problems.

Anyway,

I'm left with the Ford dealer (under warranty) changing the #4 injector, and replacing the entire short block.

On top of this - I asked about swapping out the other 7 injectors under warranty so the money they just paid for the short block didn't go to waste in the next x many years if they failed. I was told they needed replaced as they were near end of life but not for the warranty reason (likely covering their butts in case it happens again.

So, I agreed to pay to have them replaced as it would be cheap since the engine was in bits anyway.

So they've changed 7 remaining fuel injectors, all spark plugs, an o2 sensor and the thermostat on top of a new short block costing me $1,100.00

So I'm wondering what else I should do as preventative?

What exactly is the "short block"

Should I have the coils changed?

Anything else of vital importance to do while they're in there?

Thanks!

Short block is basically the engine minus heads and all accessories. (includes block, crankshaft, rods, pistons)

Long block generally would include the heads, cams and timing gear as well.

 

[FordandPolaris]

short block is basically a new block without the internals such as pistons etc. Usually these are reused from the old motor. How did dumping fuel into the cylinder wreck the engine...? Seems like a pretty silly reason to replace an entire motor. Not trying to put you down, I am just curious what the dealership found to warrant such a repair.

If you have it apart, change the coils. They are a pain in the butt when it is in the truck.

EDIT: Whoops Tom beat me to the explanation of short block haha.

 

[toms89]

Sometimes if the engine has been running poorly the catalytic converters can be damaged as a result. Oil, coolant, or excessive fuel are bad for them.

 

[Mediamonkey11]

Hydrolock and cracked piston?

 

[toms89]

short block is basically a new block without the internals such as pistons etc. Usually these are reused from the old motor. How did dumping fuel into the cylinder wreck the engine...? Seems like a pretty silly reason to replace an entire motor. Not trying to put you down, I am just curious what the dealership found to warrant such a repair.

If you have it apart, change the coils. They are a pain in the butt when it is in the truck.

EDIT: Whoops Tom beat me to the explanation of short block haha.

"Short block" does include pistons, crankshaft, rods etc... (the rotating assembly)

"Block" would indicate the block without any internals.

 

[gigantapithic]

Thanks guys.

I dunno why it would ruin the engine, fuel washes out oil, rods get bent or something like that? I read that on here.

After they originally changed the injector and the oil there was an engine knock. They asked if it was there prior, I said no, they said "okay, it'll be $1,500 to open up engine and look, if it was caused by the injector dumping fuel into engine (stuck open) then we'll replace as per the warranty) and you won't pay $1,500, but if it wasn't our fault, you're out $1,500 plus the cost to fix and then $1,500 to put back together."

They said it was under warranty and as such I didn't have to pay anything.

Coils should be changed though?

Here's the thread from the original issue - wasn't getting much replies so I moved it to the engine forum so to speak.

http://www.expeditionforum.com/f41/error-codes-error-codes-more-error-codes-21023/

 

[toms89]

Hydrolock and cracked piston?

It would take a serious amount of fuel to hydrolock the piston. Injector has very little time to inject fuel even if it is locked open. Unless its a top fuel injector....

My guess is it washed down the cylinder wall of oil and the rings scored the cylinder wall..

 

[Mediamonkey11]

It would take a serious amount of fuel to hydrolock the piston. Injector has very little time to inject fuel even if it is locked open. Unless its a top fuel injector....

My guess is it washed down the cylinder wall of oil and the rings scored the cylinder wall..

Makes sense, he did say it created a knock so I think you're right. My thought was maybe the injector stuck open with the engine off, meh, glad they're covering it under warranty!

 

[toms89]

Makes sense, he did say it created a knock so I think you're right. My thought was maybe the injector stuck open with the engine off, meh, glad they're covering it under warranty!

Didn't consider that..... You would loose fuel pressure quickly but it could inject a fair amount before it bleeds down to zero... hmmm

 

[gigantapithic]

It would take a serious amount of fuel to hydrolock the piston. Injector has very little time to inject fuel even if it is locked open. Unless its a top fuel injector....

My guess is it washed down the cylinder wall of oil and the rings scored the cylinder wall..

Hmmm, they also had to change an O ring, would that add to the reasons for why the engine was damaged?

 

[gigantapithic]

Geez, can't keep up with the speed of replies

There was a TON of fuel coming through. My driveway is stained below where the exhaust pipe was, the white smoke was billowing out the back, driving to the shop I had to hang my head out the window as I thought I was going to pass out.

So - a suggestion to change the ignition coils, anything else (are coil packs the same as ignition coils, or COPs)? Or am I all tuned up with a new engine so to speak

 

[BIGRED03]

So I should be picking up the expy in a few days (Monday, Tuesday) after the #4 injector dumped fuel into the cylinder and seems to have caused major problems.

Anyway,

I'm left with the Ford dealer (under warranty) changing the #4 injector, and replacing the entire short block.

On top of this - I asked about swapping out the other 7 injectors under warranty so the money they just paid for the short block didn't go to waste in the next x many years if they failed. I was told they needed replaced as they were near end of life but not for the warranty reason (likely covering their butts in case it happens again.

So, I agreed to pay to have them replaced as it would be cheap since the engine was in bits anyway.

So they've changed 7 remaining fuel injectors, all spark plugs, an o2 sensor and the thermostat on top of a new short block costing me $1,100.00

So I'm wondering what else I should do as preventative?

What exactly is the "short block"

Should I have the coils changed?

Anything else of vital importance to do while they're in there?

Thanks!

Who was that guy asking if extended warranties are worth it the other day? How many miles on that truck?
Is this your warranty covering this or a extended part warranty from Ford? I'm taking it as the latter.

If I can buy 8 new fuel injectors for $160.00 a o2 sensor for $100.00, spark plugs $40.00 and a thermostat for $10.00 what is the $1100.00 for? I am seeing $310.00.

I am seeing 8 pack of coils for $75.00 advertised. Probably a real good idea to get those done now.

It's just money but I would not have agreed to that. For the labor money that dealer is making off Ford they should have at least "costed out" those parts.

What I am not understanding is what damaged the short block that would not cause the head and other running gear some problems as well? Crankcase full of fuel? I am proud of Ford for standing behind the product.

Oops, you posted again before I got off the phone

 

[BIGRED03]

It would take a serious amount of fuel to hydrolock the piston. Injector has very little time to inject fuel even if it is locked open. Unless its a top fuel injector....

My guess is it washed down the cylinder wall of oil and the rings scored the cylinder wall..

Would not the head need to be machined?

 

[gigantapithic]

Who was that guy asking if extended warranties are worth it the other day? How many miles on that truck?
Is this your warranty covering this or a extended part warranty from Ford? I'm taking it as the latter.

If I can buy 8 new fuel injectors for $160.00 a o2 sensor for $100.00, spark plugs $40.00 and a thermostat for $10.00 what is the $1100.00 for? I am seeing $310.00.

I am seeing 8 pack of coils for $75.00 advertised. Probably a real good idea to get those done now.

It's just money but I would not have agreed to that. For the labor money that dealer is making off Ford they should have at least "costed out" those parts.

What I am not understanding is what damaged the short block that would not cause the head and other running gear some problems as well? Crankcase full of fuel? I am proud of Ford for standing behind the product.

Oops, you posted again before I got off the phone

154,000 kms. The injector (the one that failed) were covered by the Ford Customer Loyalty program and extended to 11 years or 190,000km.

Well the engine and car is taken to bits. So, the labour they're charging me to do the extra stuff is $350 (O2 sensor, thermostat, plugs, injectors) which is a good deal since it's already apart. Then I'm obviously not getting cost on the parts since it's at a dealer. That said, I need my car back, it's in pieces, and I don't really have time to shop around for parts off of ebay, or outside part sources/stores that require mailing them to Calgary, Alberta Canada (if you're in the US your parts might be cheaper?). So I'm kind of stuck with what they're doing and the prices they're giving me. If I didn't get these things done and then got them done elsewhere after collecting the parts it would likely be a few weeks before I get it done and then the labour is going to skyrocket. Also now all this stuff is at least warrantied at the Ford Dealer less than 2kms away.

Basically I'm looking at it as paying $1,100 for a new short block, o2 sensor, thermostat, 8 plugs changed (the ones that break that dealers charge up to $1,000 for), 8 injectors, all done by a local dealer and warrantied. I paid $6,000 for the vehicle 2 months ago. I think I'm coming out on top given how this could have transpired.

I've also got a 2,508 km trip coming up in 12 days... And about 800 kms in 6 days, so I need my car.

Also just priced these parts out at Canadian Tire
Thermostat - $30
Spark Plugs - $90
Fuel Injectors - $520 (@ $65 each)
02 sensor - $100
$777 total incuding tax.

 

[BIGRED03]

Wow at those prices i......

154,000 kms. The injector (the one that failed) were covered by the Ford Customer Loyalty program and extended to 11 years or 190,000km.

Well the engine and car is taken to bits. So, the labour they're charging me to do the extra stuff is $350 (O2 sensor, thermostat, plugs, injectors) which is a good deal since it's already apart. Then I'm obviously not getting cost on the parts since it's at a dealer. That said, I need my car back, it's in pieces, and I don't really have time to shop around for parts off of ebay, or outside part sources/stores that require mailing them to Calgary, Alberta Canada (if you're in the US your parts might be cheaper?). So I'm kind of stuck with what they're doing and the prices they're giving me. If I didn't get these things done and then got them done elsewhere after collecting the parts it would likely be a few weeks before I get it done and then the labour is going to skyrocket. Also now all this stuff is at least warrantied at the Ford Dealer less than 2kms away.

Basically I'm looking at it as paying $1,100 for a new short block, o2 sensor, thermostat, 8 plugs changed (the ones that break that dealers charge up to $1,000 for), 8 injectors, all done by a local dealer and warrantied. I paid $6,000 for the vehicle 2 months ago. I think I'm coming out on top given how this could have transpired.

I've also got a 2,508 km trip coming up in 12 days... And about 800 kms in 6 days, so I need my car.

Also just priced these parts out at Canadian Tire
Thermostat - $30
Spark Plugs - $90
Fuel Injectors - $520 (@ $65 each)
02 sensor - $100
$777 total incuding tax.

And I thought the cost of living would be less in Canada even with the exchange rate. $777 that's more than twice the cost here. Yeah you got the better end of that deal knowing that. More or less a new engine to boot! Is everything up there this expensive? Electric power and gasoline how bad is that? It's 3.25 for 87 octane by he gallon on the west coast of Florida. I have been to Quebec on a expense account and know how high things there are just figured I was in the high rent district.
Glad it all worked out for you and have a safe trip.

 

[gigantapithic]

And I thought the cost of living would be less in Canada even with the exchange rate. $777 that's more than twice the cost here. Yeah you got the better end of that deal knowing that. More or less a new engine to boot! Is everything up there this expensive? Electric power and gasoline how bad is that? It's 3.25 for 87 octane by he gallon on the west coast of Florida. I have been to Quebec on a expense account and know how high things there are just figured I was in the high rent district.
Glad it all worked out for you and have a safe trip.

Calgary & Edmonton (City) and Alberta have the cheapest gas of any of the provinces and it's $1.18 per litre which would work out to $4.47 per gallon CDN.

Most things cost more - even though the dollar is currently .955 USD (better than years ago) and has been around parity for awhile. I can do a trip to Hawaii and save enough money on buying sports (gym) clothes and work clothes (pants, shirts) and shoes that it makes the cost of my flight free. Why do you think Target moved to Canada

Canadian Tire isn't a great place to shop for parts - but I think we've got one or two specialty shops in a trade area of 1.3 million people. Automobiles just aren't the same as the US. So the market isn't really there for cheap parts. I think most of the parts you'd see Canadians on this site talking about buying (lights, etc) would mostly come from the States or farther away (or Ontario) which is further from me that 1/3rd of the States

 

[toms89]

Would not the head need to be machined?

Not following you?!

Lack of oil on cylinder walls due to fuel wash causes excessive wear between the rings and cylinder wall and typically a loss of compression. The heads are not directly effected.

Edit: Reviewing your post, your assuming the crank case is full of fuel. This may or may not be the case. What I read indicated raw fuel was coming out the exhaust which would be understandable if an injector was stuck open. It would not burn it all before it exited the cylinder. It would tend to pool in the exhaust along with any condensation.

 

[BIGRED03]

Not following you?!

Lack of oil on cylinder walls due to fuel wash causes excessive wear between the rings and cylinder wall and typically a loss of compression. The heads are not directly effected.

Edit: Reviewing your post, your assuming the crank case is full of fuel. This may or may not be the case. What I read indicated raw fuel was coming out the exhaust which would be understandable if an injector was stuck open. It would not burn it all before it exited the cylinder. It would tend to pool in the exhaust along with any condensation.

Just me, its hard to believe that after 154,000kms those heads are in good enough shape for installation on a new block w/o some kind of resurfacing or something.

 

[toms89]

Just me, its hard to believe that after 154,000kms those heads are in good enough shape for installation on a new block w/o some kind of resurfacing or something.

Repairs always beg the question as to how far you should or want to go. Guess you got to weigh cost vs benefit and peace of mind.

As long as the surface is true and within specs it would not be necessary to resurface. Valve seals, guides, cam bearings with high mileage motor ..... well it comes down to how much do you want to spend. No guarantee on how much more life they have in them good or bad. Well maintained motors have gone multiples of that mileage.