Ticking/clicking sound front of engine

[Gameza902]

Hi everyone, new to the thread. I have a 2003 Ford expedition xlt. Has 152,000 miles and has been an amazing car. No problems since I got it. The other day my alternator went out and I changed it with a reman alternator. Now it worked fine everything back to normal but now there is this loud ticking/clicking noise coming from the pulley area. It gets louder and ticking increases when stepping on gas. I thought possibly a bad alternator so I bought a brand new one and it's still the same. Ive checked all the pulleys by hand for loose bolts or plates but nothing. I also did an oil change thinking it could be low oil and still the same. Ticking noise starts when I fire the truck up and stays even when warm. I've took the belt off and checked the tensioner. At this point I don't want to take it to a mechanic and start just randomly replacing things. Any help would be very appreciated!!

 

[Bain64]

Does it still make the ticking noise when the belt is removed and engine running? Don't let it overheat or drain the battery, but a brief test is ok.

 

[1955moose]

Could be one of the cam lifters up front, either stuck or not operating proper. Very carefully use a stethoscope and probe around front of motor. I cant emphasize enough to be careful while running motor. You've isolated all the pulleys up front so that's out of the equation. The other possibility is something is loose or broken inside the timing cover.

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[Bain64]

Yea Moose is spot on like usual, without physically hearing it I would guess lifters too. Since Gameza seemed to connect the noise with the new alternator, I was hoping to completely rule that possibility out for him by removing the belt system from the equation.

 

[Habbibie]

Take the belt off and turn the truck on, does the trick continues or does it disappear? If it continues its cam & crank related (lifters), if it disappears it's a belt driven related issue... do this on a cold motor cause your water pump isn't running at that time

Is it the 5.4 or the 4.6 motor?

Remember guys the 2v 5.4 isn't as notorious as the 3v 5.4, while phasers do fail they're rare and far in between. Are all 8 spark plugs tightly secure?

 

[1955moose]

Habbies right I forgot about sparkplugs! The 2 valve motors have a problem with the mechanics under torquing them. Check all 8, make sure their at 18 ft lbs .

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[Gameza902]

Hi guys and thanks allot for your input. I recently replaced the ac compressor, the belt tensioner, the idler pulley. Still no fix. I tried your belt test and the answer is yes the tick continues when the belt was off. I checked all spark plugs. I replaced plugs and coils about 15,000 miles ago all still in good condition. None loose. Where should I go from here? Does that mean it's internal?

 

[Habbibie]

Hi guys and thanks allot for your input. I recently replaced the ac compressor, the belt tensioner, the idler pulley. Still no fix. I tried your belt test and the answer is yes the tick continues when the belt was off. I checked all spark plugs. I replaced plugs and coils about 15,000 miles ago all still in good condition. None loose. Where should I go from here? Does that mean it's internal?

Yes sadly it's most likely internal but it doesnt rule out the injectors which do tick but those can be felt when the truck is running...

Did you verify the the plugs aren't loose or are you making the assumption they're tight?

Anyways, theres a way to tell between a lifter tick and a phaser tick, they both sound the same but valves tick faster as the rpm increases and they dont disappear when engine is cold or hot, a phaser tick tends to be constant and most of the time only appears when the engine has warmed up.

Finally you can pin point the location of the tick using the long screwdriver trick and it's more defined if the belt stays off while engine is running

 

[Gameza902]

Thanks again. I'll be taking it in on Monday to see if a mechanic can narrow it down. The tick is coming from the top passenger side it sounds like to me. And it ticks whether cold or hot and it also increases when rpms increase. It sounds to me like it's leaning towards a lifter tick. I will try the screwdriver trick with the belt off tomorrow and try to narrow it down. If it is the lifter ticking how do I go about fixing it? Replacement on parts? I did check all 4 spark plugs on the passenger side thoughly. But again all we're tight and in good looks...

 

[1955moose]

Lifters and cam followers involve removing the camshaft on that side, replacing bad parts, retiming in cam and hope for the best. Unless I missed something, 2003 two valve motors dont use cam phasers. I thought those were only on 05 and newer Expeditions and 04 and newer f150's with 3 valve per cylinder.

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[Habbibie]

Lifters and cam followers involve removing the camshaft on that side, replacing bad parts, retiming in cam and hope for the best. Unless I missed something, 2003 two valve motors dont use cam phasers. I thought those were only on 05 and newer Expeditions and 04 and newer f150's with 3 valve per cylinder.

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They don't? I thought they had the phasers just not the vct's.

Anywho aren't the valves adjustable? Dont quote me on this but I know Honda's J series motors can have their lifter springs backlash adjusted (I just did it last week on my wifes 3.5 odyssey), not sure if its possible on the 5.4 but it'll require the removal of the valve covers, on her honda that ment the intake manifold had to come off too but seeing these v8's the intake manifold doesnt seem like it has to be removed

@Gameza902 which motor do you have, the 4.6 or 5.4?

 

[Gameza902]

I have the 4.6 motor. Id like to add some details. The tick is there at idle but kind of disappears for for a couple seconds at a time. When I get to stepping on the gas it tick louder and faster. But once I get over around 2500 rpm the tick fades away. Until rpms drop then the tick comes back. Just thought I would share this might help narrow it. I'm leaning towards lifters based off what I'm reading but my buddy said it sounds like a loose timing chain..? Hmm definitely got my head spinning.ha. Tha just guys

 

[1955moose]

Theirs no adjustment, it's all hydraulic. Any upper or lower end noise will be rpm sensitive. A lower end bearing knock will get louder as rpm increases. Same for a valve train tick or clatter. It's just the nature of the beast. Theirs so many things that make these motors possibly tick. A valve lifter not pumping or moving in it's bore, or a worn cam follower, having excessive clearance between it and cam lobe, a worn cam lobe itself, worn chains and tenshioners usually cause more of a clatter or rattle sound. Then you've got exaust leaks, etc, etc,. Over 6 things to check for a tick and counting. Fun ain't it!

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[rjdelp7]

A bad or aged serpentine belt will chirp. It will get worse when damp or it rains. Mine sounded awful. I bought a Goodyear Gatorback (the quiet belt) and it the fixed issue. Cheap Dayco belts are famous for this noise. Get a spray bottle and spray straight water on it. If sound changes or goes away, you found your problem. Clean your pulleys that ride on the back of the belt.

 

[TobyU]

If it's there even with the belt off the you know it's internal engine timing chains lifters or something. I have heard the timing chains slap around on some of them usually just when they're cold but on a couple of high-mileage ones I've heard the chain check all the time. I would add a quart of Marvel's Mystery Oil or Roslin to it. They both can do wonders for lifter ticks.
If you just change the oil, don't overfill it. Drain a little out or put a new oil filter on that's about half a quart.
I have also had the timing chain tensioners that could tap right before they clipped to the next position. I will usually hold the gas down just a little bit maybe 1200 to 1500 RPMs and shift from reverse to drive with foot on the brake. I just want it to jerk a little bit harder than normal. Don't go crazy as it's bad o your transmission and can be rough on motor mounts.

 

[1955moose]

Marvel mystery oil is good stuff, one of the few products that actually does good. But be careful I recommended it to one of our 2005 3 valve member's about a year back. All hell broke loose after installing it. Course he put in too much, added something else on top of the mm oil. He got lucky and changed the cam solenoids that are removable from outside. It should be ok for a 2 valve motor, but no guarantees. I've used it in the past in other vehicles with good results.

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[rjdelp7]

Marvel mystery oil is good stuff, one of the few products that actually does good. But be careful I recommended it to one of our 2005 3 valve member's about a year back. All hell broke loose after installing it. Course he put in too much, added something else on top of the mm oil. He got lucky and changed the cam solenoids that are removable from outside. It should be ok for a 2 valve motor, but no guarantees. I've used it in the past in other vehicles with good results.

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Ford recommends, no additives. Marvel 'mystery' oil was for engines made 50 years ago, with sticky valves and lifters. It is more of cleaning product. New engines use Variable cam timing. They need good oil pressure to work. Use the recommend oil only and keep it full.

 

[1955moose]

That's why I stated not for the 3 valve variable timing motors. 04 and older don't use advancers or have the issues that newer ones do. I'm with you though, we never like to recommend any additives here. Your trying to put a bandage over a deep cut that needs to be fixed. Everybody wants a quick and cheap fix, no such thing in life. You gotta put in the time, hard to get around it.

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[TobyU]

Ford recommends, no additives. Marvel 'mystery' oil was for engines made 50 years ago, with sticky valves and lifters. It is more of cleaning product. New engines use Variable cam timing. They need good oil pressure to work. Use the recommend oil only and keep it full.

But the OP's 2003 is 1990 technology (designed way before that) so it is 30 year old design.
nothing in there to warrant not using a high detergent additive. They can do wonders for a tapping lifter with a speck of dirt in it or won't pump up.
Also fresh oil (op said they did oil change after it started ticking) esp with synthetic can clean up a sticking lifter.
They are superseded spec-ed to 5w-20 anyway now which is thin and should get about anywhere oil can or should get.
There are certain conditions where the 5w-20 or even 5w-30 (modular should never really be run with anything thicker than 10w-30 or 5w-40 but many have for years without clogging up or starving) on some engines can be too thin and cause the timing chain tensioner to not build pressure when it leaks out and past tensioner too quickly and a different weight of oil can stop that ticking.
Always variables specific to conditions and history. The manufacturer recommendations are very generic to cover a very broad range of climates and conditions.
An oil you could run in an engine in Florida would destroy one in Alaska....for an extreme comparison.
I ran a 1994 (but was jasper reman) in 1999-2001 4.6 on Mobil 15w-50 all year long.
temps got down to teens maybe single digits and still running well when I sold it.
I have a friend with a 95 Town Car with original engine with about 240K. It leaks and puffs valve seal smoke. He has run 15w-40 Rotella for the last 4-5 years.
I keep telling him it will eventually clog up and oil light will come on and loose pressure but it keeps running well. Stopping - not so much. Had to replace every inch of brake line od the entire car in sub 20 degree weather OUTSIDE by flashlight at times over 3 work sessions.
I'm a glutton for punishment.

 

[rjdelp7]

But the OP's 2003 is 1990 technology (designed way before that) so it is 30 year old design.
nothing in there to warrant not using a high detergent additive. They can do wonders for a tapping lifter with a speck of dirt in it or won't pump up.
Also fresh oil (op said they did oil change after it started ticking) esp with synthetic can clean up a sticking lifter.
They are superseded spec-ed to 5w-20 anyway now which is thin and should get about anywhere oil can or should get.
There are certain conditions where the 5w-20 or even 5w-30 (modular should never really be run with anything thicker than 10w-30 or 5w-40 but many have for years without clogging up or starving) on some engines can be too thin and cause the timing chain tensioner to not build pressure when it leaks out and past tensioner too quickly and a different weight of oil can stop that ticking.
Always variables specific to conditions and history. The manufacturer recommendations are very generic to cover a very broad range of climates and conditions.
An oil you could run in an engine in Florida would destroy one in Alaska....for an extreme comparison.
I ran a 1994 (but was jasper reman) in 1999-2001 4.6 on Mobil 15w-50 all year long.
temps got down to teens maybe single digits and still running well when I sold it.
I have a friend with a 95 Town Car with original engine with about 240K. It leaks and puffs valve seal smoke. He has run 15w-40 Rotella for the last 4-5 years.
I keep telling him it will eventually clog up and oil light will come on and loose pressure but it keeps running well. Stopping - not so much. Had to replace every inch of brake line od the entire car in sub 20 degree weather OUTSIDE by flashlight at times over 3 work sessions.
I'm a glutton for punishment.

There are no lifters on an overhead valve engine.