Carbon Monoxide/Exhaust coming into Cabin

[Expeditionjenn]

Hello-I am new to forums, and posted this last night on the Blue Oval Expedition forum. I am now blocked!! Here is what I wrote hoping to find our if anyone else has the same horrible issue:
Hi, new to forum so I apologize if this has already been addressed. Does anyone else have exhaust coming into the cabin of their Expedition?? We have a 2017 Expedition that smells like exhaust while driving on highway. Exactly like the Explorers, it seems to happen when AC is on. We placed a carbon monoxide detector inside and it registered 45ppms(apparently not too high, but a police officer in Massachusetts driving an Explorer passed out this week from CO2 levels of 13ppms). Not sure if it is a placebo effect, but our family feels headachey, nauseous and lightheaded every time we drive it. Took it to dealership four times for repairs. The first 2 times, they could not replicate the exhaust smell. Finally, the mechanics were able to smell it during our test drive. They admitted that they do not know how to fix it, and gave it back to us. They are waiting to hear from Ford headquarters to see how to handle it. Unbelievable that a dealership would give back a car with a know exhaust/carbon monoxide leak! Obviously, it is parked and not being used. Very annoying and inconvenient with 3 kids, but not willing to risk CO2 poisoning. Is anyone else having this issue with their Expedition?

 

[J Ski]

Not sure what could be causing the leak in a 2017 but I'm a firefighter and let me just say anything over 35ppm we are in full turnout gear, masked up, on our supplied air from our SCBAs (self contained breathing apparatus). 45ppm is very dangerous and the fact that you said your family feels nauseous, headache, and lightheaded would really concern me. You are dealing with CO poisoning which can creep up quickly, especially with children. All it's gonna take is that higher concentration one day while your driving and boom, unconscious behind the wheel. I would highly recommend NOT driving your vehicle or else risk your life and others

 

[JExpedition07]

Wow I'm sorry to hear this that is no fun and no good. I really hope they resolve this for you ASAP. On the explorers the cause is normally exhaust manifold gasket leaks or manifold cracks as they get older from what I know. A test for manifold gasket is to spray it with bubble solution while it runs (in park) and see if it bubbles up. If it does, it's leaking. You can also reverse this by blowing (shopvac) into the exhaust system and spray bubble solution and wait until you see bubbles at a leak point if you don't want to run it (manifolds and gaskets are prime suspects). These "mechanics" are all just parts changers and have no concept on troubleshooting it seems. J ski is right it's just dangerous to drive it in that state. I always try and investigate some myself because sometimes you are your best troubleshooter as you know what it's doing. If you can pinpoint the leak in your system and prove it on video you can tell them to get to work.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Hello-I am new to forums, and posted this last night on the Blue Oval Expedition forum. I am now blocked!! Here is what I wrote hoping to find our if anyone else has the same horrible issue:
Hi, new to forum so I apologize if this has already been addressed. Does anyone else have exhaust coming into the cabin of their Expedition?? We have a 2017 Expedition that smells like exhaust while driving on highway. Exactly like the Explorers, it seems to happen when AC is on. We placed a carbon monoxide detector inside and it registered 45ppms(apparently not too high, but a police officer in Massachusetts driving an Explorer passed out this week from CO2 levels of 13ppms). Not sure if it is a placebo effect, but our family feels headachey, nauseous and lightheaded every time we drive it. Took it to dealership four times for repairs. The first 2 times, they could not replicate the exhaust smell. Finally, the mechanics were able to smell it during our test drive. They admitted that they do not know how to fix it, and gave it back to us. They are waiting to hear from Ford headquarters to see how to handle it. Unbelievable that a dealership would give back a car with a know exhaust/carbon monoxide leak! Obviously, it is parked and not being used. Very annoying and inconvenient with 3 kids, but not willing to risk CO2 poisoning. Is anyone else having this issue with their Expedition?

Hi Jenn,

Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry to hear about the problems you are having. I have a 17 Expedition Limited EL I'm not having any issues like that. I bought mine in February and we've taken it on a couple of long trips, taking again on another long this Friday. Mine was manufactured on December 15, 2016

What specific model do you have?
Is it the long or short wheel base?
When did you buy your Expedition?
Do you know when it was manufactured?
When you run your a/c do you use recirculation or do leave that off?

In order to get exhaust fumes in your truck, you either have to have a leak in the exhaust system, and an opening in the truck for the fumes to come in from or you don't have a leak and you have exhaust gas being pulled into the truck from the tailpipe at the back of the truck where you have a natural vacuum. Check your seals around the liftgate, and the rear window.

Please let us know what you find out.

 

[Expeditionjenn]

Thank you so much for your responses!! We tried another dealership and the only thing they did was tell us that 43 ppms of carbon monoxide is safe according to OSHA. Maybe safe for an adult in the workplace, but not so sure if safe for children in a car. We agree with J Ski, and are not going to drive the truck until it is fixed. I am bringing it back to the original dealership on Monday(they want to take another look) so I will mention your suggestions JExpedition07. ExpeditionAndy-we have a Limited, short wheel base. We purchased in November 2016. Not sure where it was manufactured but will check. When we use the AC we leave recirculation off. I believe they did check and replace the seals around the liftgate and rear window too but will double check with them. We contacted the Ford Customer Service hotline too. They were supposed to contact me within one business day, but have not. Hate to have to turn to an lawyer(we are not like that and have never sued anyone before), but if they can't fix it again we are going to have to hire a lemon law attorney. It has been in the dealership 6 times and well over the 30 days required to lemon law a vehicle in NY. Again, we hope it does not get that far, but Ford may leave us no choice. It's a shame because I really love Expeditions. This is our 3rd one and never had a problem before. And thanks again for all your suggestions. Will keep you posted..

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

Thank you so much for your responses!! We tried another dealership and the only thing they did was tell us that 43 ppms of carbon monoxide is safe according to OSHA.

The dealership either doesn't understand the OSHA guidelines or is intentionally misrepresenting them. OSHA guidelines state that 35 ppm is the maximum acceptable exposure for an 8-hour work day (in other words 35 ppm on average over a period of 8 hours). The WHO lists a limit of 9 ppm for this same time period. The EPA lists a limit of 9 ppm for only 1 hour.

 

[Expeditionjenn]

The dealership either doesn't understand the OSHA guidelines or is intentionally misrepresenting them. OSHA guidelines state that 35 ppm is the maximum acceptable exposure for an 8-hour work day (in other words 35 ppm on average over a period of 8 hours). The WHO lists a limit of 9 ppm for this same time period. The EPA lists a limit of 9 ppm for only 1 hour.

Hi-I think it is just a matter of ignorance on the dealer's part. They were in no position to make that determination! I will check out the WHO. Never heard of that before. Thanks for your response!

 

[Hayes Riviere]

So sorry to hear that! Hope to hear updates on what the dealership says. Unacceptable that they would just give you back the Expedition after knowing the fact that carbon monoxide is present in the cabin. They could have at least given you a replacement while they did tests! Good luck with it.

 

[bobmbx]

This may be related.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...arbon-monoxide-concerns/ar-AAoX4J4?li=BBnbfcN

Over on the Explorer Forum, there are tons of posts on the same subject, going back to at least 2011.

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

This may be related.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...arbon-monoxide-concerns/ar-AAoX4J4?li=BBnbfcN

Over on the Explorer Forum, there are tons of posts on the same subject, going back to at least 2011.

Yeah, this is well known also so it's pretty ridiculous that Ford has been responding to the recent Explorer reports in the news as if it's the first time they're hearing about it.

 

[Argusman]

Had a similar issue on my 2007 F150 and discovered that the #4 spark plug was loose by a 1/2 turn. The smell would only enter when I didn't have the recirculate setting on. FYI the dealership didn't find the issue but found the answer on another forum

 

[Idaho Beachbum]

Really sorry to hear about this! Hopefully the dealer can find a solution for you... I know we sometimes can smell exhaust in ours, but it is only when the rear windows are open and only in certain circumstances and I haven't figured out what it is yet. Sometimes on freeway, sometimes going around town and sometimes towing..... So I try not to use them to often as I am not sure exactly what is causing the 'vacuum'... sounds like yours is much worse... hoping you can get it figured out with out having to go down the lemon route.

 

[bobmbx]

Watch this video. As the tail light assembly is being removed, take a look at what is hidden behind it. Its a vent. On both sides.

https://www.carcarekiosk.com/video/2007_Ford_Expedition_EL_Eddie_Bauer_5.4L_V8/lights/brake_light Certainly a source for air intrusion.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Watch this video. As the tail light assembly is being removed, take a look at what is hidden behind it. Its a vent. On both sides.

https://www.carcarekiosk.com/video/2007_Ford_Expedition_EL_Eddie_Bauer_5.4L_V8/lights/brake_light Certainly a source for air intrusion.

When you are in normal mode the fresh air that comes in, exits through the vents behind the tail lights. When you are in recirc mode if the pressure in the vehicle is lower it might allow the vents to pull in exhaust.

 

[jeff kushner]

It will be interesting to see if the OP returns.....somehow I doubt it.

jeff

 

[Expeditionjenn]

It will be interesting to see if the OP returns.....somehow I doubt it.

jeff

I am the original poster(If that's what "OP" means-I had to google it) and yes I am still here. I appreciate all the helpful comments and feedback I have been getting from this forum. I have been passing them onto the mechanics at Ford. I haven't been posting, because there has been no change. Car is still at dealership as they try to figure out what is going on. Thanks for your post

 

[Allen Miller]

I am the original poster(If that's what "OP" means-I had to google it) and yes I am still here. I appreciate all the helpful comments and feedback I have been getting from this forum. I have been passing them onto the mechanics at Ford. I haven't been posting, because there has been no change. Car is still at dealership as they try to figure out what is going on. Thanks for your post

I've been watching this thread pretty closely over at the Explorer Forum, and it sounds like you've got the exact same problem - with a similar initial response from Ford.

The Explorer TSB details a couple possible fixes. In order of attempt: Update HVAC computer to latest software; inspect all possible holes and seams for improper sealant, apply sealant as necessary; install exhaust tips with an internal turn-down so that exhaust exits the bottom, but still keeps the shiny straight exit look.

When you are in normal mode the fresh air that comes in, exits through the vents behind the tail lights. When you are in recirc mode if the pressure in the vehicle is lower it might allow the vents to pull in exhaust.

That seems to make sense, but on the explorers, the TSB was looking at ALL possible holes, but left the "air extractors" alone except to seal them for a pressure test. My understanding is that these vents are only supposed to let any positive pressure out, and in Recirc mode, there's supposed to be negative pressure, but I wonder if they just aren't sealing properly...

In another post, you mentioned that you hadn't experienced it. Put the rear AC off completely, put your front AC on recirculate (with MAX fan setting) and do a long WOT run, such as pulling onto the interstate. That seems to be a sure-fire way to get it to show up in the Explorers.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

In another post, you mentioned that you hadn't experienced it. Put the rear AC off completely, put your front AC on recirculate (with MAX fan setting) and do a long WOT run, such as pulling onto the interstate. That seems to be a sure-fire way to get it to show up in the Explorers.

We did an 8 hour trip to PA a week ago and I almost never run the rear AC unless I have passengers. We were cruising about 80 MPH most of the way where we could. It was just my wife and we didn't experience any exhaust fumes or CO symptoms.

 

[Allen Miller]

We did an 8 hour trip to PA a week ago and I almost never run the rear AC unless I have passengers. We were cruising about 80 MPH most of the way where we could. It was just my wife and we didn't experience any exhaust fumes or CO symptoms.

How many times did you really floor it though? That seems to be the big difference for people that have the problem on the explorers - especially the PIU, since upfitters make extra holes, and LEOs seem to floor it almost every time they move.

It wasn't on every Explorer or PIU, so it probably won't be on every Expedition if it's a problem there too.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

How many times did you really floor it though? That seems to be the big difference for people that have the problem on the explorers - especially the PIU, since upfitters make extra holes, and LEOs seem to floor it almost every time they move.

It wasn't on every Explorer or PIU, so it probably won't be on every Expedition if it's a problem there too.

probably about 6 to 8 times getting on the turnpike, getting back on after a rest stop. Passing long lines f cars that kept riding in the left lane and didn't move over, I know I hit 95 at least once during one of those high speed foot to the floor passes.