Question on programmers, CAI's and the relearn process

Without getting much into the pros or cons of a cold air intake or the other parts in general, I have a question about programmers and the CAI and the relearning process. First the details:

2010 Expedition Eddie Bauer w/ 105k miles

I recently installed:

New Motorcraft Plugs
New Summit Performance Coils
K&N CAI
New "Performance" MAF
Edge Evolution CTS Programmer
MagnaFlow Hi Flow Cats
Gibson 3" Stainless Steel cat back exhaust


The programmer has an option to create a "custom" tune with a series of options, including one specifically for a cold air intake and has the K&N in the list of supported CAI's.

When I tried to program the tuner using the CAI option, I noticed my MAF readings seemed to be a little higher on the programmer but the truck idled really rough, would stall coming to a stop quite often and idled higher than normal (maybe 700 rpms vs 500 rpms). I know at least some of this is a symptom of the relearn process but my question is...

I drove it for a good 30 miles and it never changed.

If I put the CAI setting on the programmer back to the stock intake the MAF readings seem to go down some but the truck seems to run fine and doesn't do the whole stalling and rough idle thing so my question is...

Has anyone every dealt with this to know if I just needed to give it some more time to relearn or if maybe that specific tune isn't appropriate or if I need to do any other changes to the programmer settings (like higher idle point or different throttle WOT setting) to really get the full advantage of the CAI?

Just curious.

Thanks!

I have never personally used the 'canned' tunes in a programmer, always favoring custom tunes, but I occasionally had issues on my F-150 with stalling and a rough idle. However, my truck never idled high, just would sometimes surge between 450-550 prior to stalling completely. Altering my in-gear idle never changed its behavior, and it was random the entire 50K miles I owned it.
From the way it sounds, your programmer is incorrectly judging the amount of air when you have the CAI selected, but is fine when you base it on a stock intake. The idle and fuel trim adjustments should not take more than a minute or two for the PCM to learn, so the programmer is adjusting the base tables too much and the computer can't figure it out.
It's just my opinion, but any gains from the CAI will be there regardless of whether the programmer is supposedly adjusted for it or not. If there's an increase in airflow, the MAF will read that and the computer will make adjustments accordingly. If the truck is running and driving great without that option selected, I would just not select it and enjoy the truck.

With all the mods you have done a can tune will not help. The programmer was not programmed for all those parts. Your in custom tune territory.

I suggest 5*. Or another tuner you prefer.

Stock maf will help. Cai and cats might work happier with that mix. Working with the canned tunes.

JMHO
CJ

My guess would be the programmer is applying the wrong table for that maf you bought. What maf is it? I'm sure the manufacturer has created a table that maybe you could load with your tuner.

I'm not familiar with tuning a Ford but the gm stuff I have tuned always required a preset table as a starting point then you could adjust as needed

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm going to do some testing and see what my HP & Torque look like and play around with the stock vs performance MAF, and then the tune and maybe reach out to someone to find out what a custom tune would run me.

Thanks for the input!

I wouldn't use the CAI on the tuner, those are often for a very specific CAI system, do you know which one?

Get a tune for the intake/MAF you are using, the tune file should also be calibrated for your MAF, why was the OEM MAF replaced? the 5.4 MAF is good for 500+whp, no way in hell you are approaching its limits on an NA motor. I would take those aftermarket coils and throw those in the trash and put a set of OEMs on, OEMs will also support 500+WHP. Again, no reason to replace the OEM MAF or OEM coils, both of these are very overbuilt for the 5.4, on coils, it is very common knowledge to only use OEM coils.

The 5.4 out of the box is a well built motor, pretty much already maximized for performance and not a lot left on the bone. There are not many mods you can do on an NA 5.4 to make more power, in fact I would throw no performance parts at an NA 5.4 unless you are going forced induction in the future.

You mention it is running rough, did you put dielectric grease on the plug boots? What was the plug gap? Do you have a vac leak somewhere? Any pending codes? My money is on a bad coil or bad connection from plug to coil. What is your idle like? If there's a slight miss then it's plug/coils, and may not present itself as a CEL for some time, you will need to check pending codes. I would check air intake from MAF to TB to ensure there are no unmetered leaks.

Programmer has an option for the K&N CAI, which is what I have. However, it's possible that K&N has released an updated CAI after the programmer's tune was created so there could be a mismatch there.

Plugs are Motorcraft OEM and gapped correctly.
Aftermarket coils are rated for same or slightly higher output voltage as OEM.

The background is that truck was running a little rough back in the summer & symptoms kinda pointed towards plugs etc (like it just needed a general tune up).

The coils, plugs, etc were all still stock/original and truck had 98k miles on it so I figured I'd replace them all at once and be done with it.

While I was ordering those parts I thought about a K&N drop in filter and came across the CAI option and the price was not prohibitive. The specs showed a small bump in torque, especially in the mid-rpm range and this is a tow vehicle for me so I figured why not. It shouldn't perform any WORSE than stock, the filter is reusable and easier to get too/inspect/clean so I bought it. While buying it, I figured I might as well replace the MAF as well since it's also got 98k miles on it, the cost for replacement wasn't prohibitive and it would only add 5 extra minutes of work.

I wasn't expecting any specific hot-rod effect from any of it, as much as it was just the fact that the existing equipment was 7 years old and had almost 100k miles on it, and the truck was running a little rough.

After replacement, truck continued running rough and progressively got worse, took it to a shop and they advised the passenger cat was bad/going bad.

While inspecting the exhaust I noticed the pipes and muffler also looked a little worse for wear and had quite a bit of rust on them etc (I live in the mid-atlantic so we get snow and the associated salt every year) so I figured I might as well put a new stainless steel cat back system on while "we" were down there working on it anyway rather than waiting to be out on the road towing our travel trailer and having a muffler blow a hole in the sidewall or something.

Again, no specific expectation of hot-roddedness (lol) as much as just preventative maintenance and the expectation that while OEM sounds nice, aftermarket should be reasonably expected to at least perform equivalent to OEM and be more cost effective.

After cat & exhaust replacement on the stock air filter & MAF, truck ran fine.

Updated tune to stage 2 (towing) and truck ran fine.

Swapped in the CAI & aftermarket MAF and stage 2 tune and truck ran fine.

Updated the tune to include the CAI and truck ran strong, seemed to have better throttle response under load but would idle rough and/or stall even after ~30 miles of driving and my impression was that the relearn process shouldn't take that long.

After all is said and done, the truck only runs/idle's rough if I use the K&N CAI option on the programmer. Otherwise it runs fine so my question was really more a matter of "how long should I expect the relearn to take given these parameters" so that I would know what I experienced (the rough idle/stall when using the CAI setting) is or isn't expected.

Knowing that it isn't, I'll hit up the programmer company and see if they have new tunes for the new CAI, look into a custom tune or just leave it set for stage 2 tune without the CAI setting and not worry about it.

I just didn't want to abandon any potential performance improvement gained by the CAI setting in the programmer because it seemed to take longer to relearn the idle if that was normal/expected... if that makes any sense.

Thanks!

With a custom tune you will be much closer for the ECU to learn.

The stock computer has a small window to operate in.

With tunes it has a chance to operate more efficiently.

Intake alone can send the stock computer down the rabbit hole. Then put a bigger MAF in there and your instantly in another world for the stock computer.

You have s lot of money involved in your truck. Now take the time out to enjoy it. Talk to 5*. Or who ever you prefer. Ask about your goals. Current goals and future goals.

It is fun tuning and creating power. But doing it right along the way makes it so much more fun.


JMHO

CJ

I'd think the OEM ECU can adjust to the K&N cold air intake if that's the only mod. Not that I've seen photos of this intake picking up air from outside the engine bay. Anyone got a link? The ones I've seen all take air from under the hood where it's subject to engine heat.

-- Chuck

The re-learn process should not take long. Essentially, take it onto the hwy and go through the gears with and without the AC. That's really it. During that time I would not expect the truck to run rough/miss/act funny. I would hit up the tuner about the CAI and the MAF to make sure the tune works together with these parts but otherwise sounds like you ought to be golden.