Is my 98 Expy better offroad than a 2004 Expy?

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rwinch

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Couple of points to make here:

1) Comparing an H1 to anything else is silly. There is a WORLD of difference between the H1 IS and the Expy IS, so no need to compare it to a solid (live) axle vehicle.

2) I agree that Internationals rock, but note they had live axles...

3) Serious offroaders more than anything else use live axles. They are sturdier, can transmit more power and can be set up to articulate MUCH more that IS suspensions. You can lift a vehicle with live axles easier and you can put more shocks on.

In reality, what IS suspensions get you in a stock vehicle is slightly better ground clearance, but much more than that is better handling which is DAMN_FORD is talking about.
 

daveplot

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I've been muddin many times with my 03. It has gone everywhere a 97 Tahoe and 98 F-150 has gone.

381190.jpg
 

rwinch

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No doubt....but I was not denegrading the '03s+. It is just that in general, solid axles are sturdier than IS systems.

Couple more items for exsport:
1) The '97-'02s did not have leaf springs, they used a 5-link stabilizer system with coil springs
2) The Audi and Suburu should get to places the bigger rigs couldn't, but that is due to the small size of them!

How about this.......if your are having fun, who the F@#k cares!!!
 

DAMN_FORD

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Lifting the 03 and newer won't do you much good unless you put much larger tires on it. The rear swing arms hang well below the centerline of the wheel. This is a major problem in sand, mud and rocks. You dig a little and you are high centered on your fancy independant rear a-arms. Drive over a skipping stone and get it wedged under this arm and watch your wheel spin in the air. Make sure you have a LS diff.

That's just part of it....the with the low hardware integrity and steering feedback, you can't hear the stereo with all of the rattles, and you spill your beer when the steering wheel kicks.

But, it handles great...no doubt about that! For a vehicle that size, you can't do much better in that department. Too bad you have to stay on the pavement.

I am not knocking independant suspension, that is the way to go. But, why did Ford have those arms hanging down so low. Next time you drive behind one take a look. It don't look like no off-road vechicle.

Compare it to the Independant on a Hum-V. The Hum-V is all about ground clearance.

Ford did the same goofy thing with the Exploder. Disappointing.
 
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rwinch

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DAMN_FORD, I can't understand why you have not put a steering shock on your rig! I haven't spilled my beer since! Matter of fact, I can drive with a beer in each hand....no problems at all!
 

daveplot

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Originally posted by rwinch
Matter of fact, I can drive with a beer in each hand....no problems at all!
Same here, I can even drive with one in each hand on the beach while listening to the radio.
 

exsport

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A few good points there rwinch, however:

1. The comparison is merely to illustrate that not "all" competent off road vehicles need to have a solid axle. Secondly there are aspects of the IS on the H1 and the Expedition ('03-+) that are similar. The differentials, both front and rear, do not hang down in the center of the drive path, which allows for greater ground clearance under the center of the vehicle. The drive shafts are articulated through the frame rails, although on the H1 they have dual articulations w/ gearing to transfer more torque and power.

2. Internationals rock... of course they do, and of course i am aware that they have solid axles. I have never said anything denegrating about solid axle vehicles. I happen to own an '01 Excursion Limited 7.3 PSD 4x4.

3. "Serious offroaders".... not sure who that really refers to. Is there a certain number of hours one should obtain to become certified... but you are correct, most of the rigs which people use regularly off-road have solid/live axles, but i think that is due to a lack of availabilty of IS vehicles. Greater articulation for solid axles... not really sure why that would be the case. Usually the limiting factors in articulation have to do with wheel well clearance (thus lift.. which i will get to shortly), frame clearance and suspension compononent clearance. In fact, solid axles limit their own articulations by being solid. the higher one wheel goes, the lower the other, and eventually the vehicle will roll. The wheel which maintains contact with the ground will be slowly lifted of the center tread onto the edge of the tread and eventually the sidewall. Even with a limited slip differential (which in my opinion should be standard equipment on every vehicle made, not just trucks or off-roaders), you begin to lose tread contact and thus traction. This situation does not occur with IS. Of course both vehicles willl evetually roll if pushed too far. Now you say that more power is transmitted through solid axles. In theory you may be correct, but if that power is not effectively transferred to the wheels because of loss of traction, then is it relly more power transfer (e.g. washboard roads where solid axles skip and hop, losing traction, as well as in the situations with the articulation issues previously mentioned, dips/holes or rutts where the one wheel drops, end up lifting the other wheel off the road with a solid axle even if it is ever so slightly). Let's see... "easier to lift...and you can put more shocks on..." Do you mean that there are more kits available for the solid axle vehicles? Because there are kits available for the ('03-+). It can easily be lifted up 6". As far as more shocks.. I think you will find that that is mostly for show. A good, well-valved, single chamber single shock is all that anyone needs, especially at slow speeds going over big rocks and such. Multiple shocks will inhibit articulation and spring action. You are right about the springs on the '98 Expedition, the front springs anyway. Are you sure the rear springs on the '98 Expedition 4x4 are coils? I am pretty sure they are leafs on the rear. Let me know. Oh yeah and the durability issues of solid axles compared to IS. You are of course referring to the solid metal casing around the solid axles whic the IS axles do not need because they, like their differentials are neatly tucked up and away.

Next, here is something to consider: the factory 4x4 Expeditions '98-'02 all sit (are lifted) approximately 4" higher of the ground than the 4x2 models of the same year. The factory 4x4 Expeditions from '03-+ sit at the same level as their 4x2 counterparts. The 4x4 '03's and newer are not "lifted" from the factory. So in order to make a fair comparison perhaps one might want to lift the '03 4" and then try to knock its off-road performance compared to the '98-'02's. Point of fact: All Expeditions rock! If you have a '98 KEEP IT! If you want a new one GET IT! I do not think that there are any vast differences in these very capable vehicles. These vehicles are not "the choice", however when it comes to what i think rwinch is referring to as "serious offroading" such as bouldering or muddin'. If you want a "serious offroading" vehicle try something lighter with a shorter wheelbase (and a winch). The other issue is going to be the driver. The skill of the driver will make more difference than which year your Expedition is. There are reasons why Ford did not lift the '03-+ 4x4 Expeditions(i wish they had), many of which i do not know i'm sure. Probably C of G (center of gravity), one of the things which can also be important off-road. The reason I can take my audi and my subaru places where you guys can not go in your trucks is because i can traverse a 42 degree slope and because i can ascend even steeper. Low C of G. Which also provides for better power transfer. The higher your vehicle is lifted, the worse the power transfer. Anyone who lifts their truck more than 6" over stock has a serious Napoleonic Complex. The same goes for multiple shocks. These things are just for show and do not improve off-road performance. Take one of those trucks with a 12" lift and 40" tires out in the mountains to follow me and he will end up in the bottom of a gorge because the slopes are too steep for that high a C of G. A lift and bigger tires are nice and can enhance performance off-road to an extent. I plan on lifting my '04 4x4 Expedition XLT Sport 4" and putting 33" tires on her. She should then be able to go anywhere a mechanized vehicle should. If i encounter a field of 6' boulders or a mud bogg 6' deep, i will drive around it (off-road all the while), or i will get out and go for a hike (which is the main reason i go off roading anyway).

Happy Trails,
Exsport
 

exsport

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Damn Ford,
I must say it soes not surprise me to hear that you drive around with a beer in your hand, perhaps if you were sober you would stop driving over all the big bumps and wailing on your vehicle. The problem is that you guys are assuming that if a vehicle has 4 wheel drive that it is made for "off-roading". With a few modifications, you can get it set up for the "type" of off-roading which you want to do. Your vehicle is one of the most versatile vehicles made. If you do not appreciate it, then that is your problem. Your handle alone suggests that you have a big chip on your shoulder and that one is not likely to hear an objective viewpoint from you. That being said, what vehicle should one use to take 8 adults or two families of four camping or to the beach or for that matter to almost anywhere any other vehicle can go, all in comfort while towing up to 8,000+ lbs. worth of toys behind?
 

DAMN_FORD

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Originally posted by exsport
Damn Ford,
I must say it soes not surprise me to hear that you drive around with a beer in your hand, perhaps if you were sober you would stop driving over all the big bumps and wailing on your vehicle. The problem is that you guys are assuming that if a vehicle has 4 wheel drive that it is made for "off-roading". With a few modifications, you can get it set up for the "type" of off-roading which you want to do. Your vehicle is one of the most versatile vehicles made. If you do not appreciate it, then that is your problem. Your handle alone suggests that you have a big chip on your shoulder and that one is not likely to hear an objective viewpoint from you. That being said, what vehicle should one use to take 8 adults or two families of four camping or to the beach or for that matter to almost anywhere any other vehicle can go, all in comfort while towing up to 8,000+ lbs. worth of toys behind?

We are talking about if the 03 and up Expy is better off road than the previous generation. The 03 and up is the best SUV in it's class no doubt, I appreciate it. I am on my second one. But, Ford did not design it for offroad. This is readly apparent and dissapointing despite their marketing. This is a soccer Mom vehicle.

About the beer in the hand, what's the fun of off-roading if you don't go over the big bumps? I will get a steering shock and report back on the beer spillage.

And, I do NOT like Ford....But, I like this truck when it is new with no problems. When it starts acting up, it will be gone and replaced with what ever it the best SUV in it class. It just so happened that Expy was it in 03 AND 05 and I got an awesome deal on both.
 

DAMN_FORD

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rwinch,

What steering shock are you using? I am getting tired of spilled beer on my legs and seats. And, my topless dancer girlfreind screams when that cold beer hits her nipples. (She likes to sit on the console, so I can't use the drink holders.)
 
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