1998 limited slip

Captain Morgan · Nov 10, 2013

Last year one of my wheels fell in to a pothole under the snow while barely making progress at all. The wheel that sank would just spin, and unbeknownst to me, when I put on the gas it just rooster-tailed the mud and sank further.

This led to my having to winch out, and actually uprooting the first tree that I cabled to.

I don't want this, and from my understanding I have no choice in the matter other than swapping the pumpkin and axles.

Can someone shed some light on the terminology of these parts and the labor \ cost of trying to remedy this?

TIA

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tonydiv · Nov 10, 2013

For the rear, there are many choices for limited slip and locking differentials.
You don't need to change out axles though. If you have an open differential in the back, you may be able to find a 'lunchbox locker' for the rear. It installs easily in the existing differential carrier and you really don't need any special tools.

For the front, your only choice would be a selectable locker, like an ARB or e-locker.

FordandPolaris · Nov 10, 2013

Captain Morgan said:
Last year one of my wheels fell in to a pothole under the snow while barely making progress at all. The wheel that sank would just spin, and unbeknownst to me, when I put on the gas it just rooster-tailed the mud and sank further.

This led to my having to winch out, and actually uprooting the first tree that I cabled to.

I don't want this, and from my understanding I have no choice in the matter other than swapping the pumpkin and axles.

Can someone shed some light on the terminology of these parts and the labor \ cost of trying to remedy this?

TIA

.

What is the axle code on your door sticker?

Captain Morgan · Nov 11, 2013

THX for the info.

The rear is E = E4OD ( I'm pretty sure this is what I saw on the pumpkin when I crawled under there once before )

The axle is 17 = ratio 3.55C non-limited slip?

It sounds like the rear solution is an affordable self installation option, where-as the front would be more expensive and potentially a shop labor.

.

tonydiv · Nov 11, 2013

You could also look at this as an opportunity to change the gear ratios to give the truck some more pep. A jump to 4.11 to 4.30 ish gears would make the truck run and shift more like it did when the stock size rubber was on it.

Mine had 3.73 gears in it stock and I was going to bump up to 4.56, running 35 inch rubber.

Captain Morgan · Nov 12, 2013

If you have an open differential in the back, you may be able to find a 'lunchbox locker' for the rear.

Do you have any brands or places that carry this in mind?

For rear and front?

Ok here's a quick and dirty lesson on traction 'systems' for lack of a better term.

Limited slip differentials are old, mechanical technology. New electronic systems are smart, they can send varying amounts of power to each individual wheel on a 4 wheel drive truck. In order to do this, the vehicle needs to have open differentials as well as a non-locking center differential (transfer case, if you will), as they use brake force to help distribute the power. For most driving, these systems are far superior to a simple LSD.

Any links for the "new electronic systems" since I already have a "non-locking center differential"? Are you referring to the "Electronic traction control (2003–present)" in this link? If so, is it possible to add this to the 1st Gen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Expedition#Traction_Control

And the newer mods are superior to the original optional "Traction-Lok" system?

THANKS

tonydiv · Nov 12, 2013

Those 'new electronic systems' are built in to newer vehicles. It's not something that you can add to an older truck. They use individual wheel braking to send power wherever it's needed.

If you have an 8.8" rear end you can put an aussie locker in it in an afternoon. Unfortunately, if you have the 9.75" rear end, there don't seem to be any lunchbox lockers available. There are a few limited slip and locking differentials available though.

You could also put selectable (manual) lockers in the front and rear. I would also add a 4x4 Posi-loc cable system that controls the front axle disconnect.

It all kind of depends on your budget. You may be able to find an entire axle assembly in a junk yard with a 3.55 limited slip in it and swap it out for a couple of hundred.

Captain Morgan · Nov 12, 2013

Oh so something like this in the $300ish range?

aussie locker install how to: solid axle 8.8 (pics+video!) - Ford Explorer & Ranger Resource "Serious Explorations"®

Lockright (Lock Right) lockers, Powertrax, best prices, lowest cost locker kits

How to gain more traction on a limited budget

If I understand correctly, these are subject to wearing out like the clutch in a std transmission?

No tire bark?

"Under power the locker will force both tires to spin at the same speed, as you let up on the gas it unlock, this will allow one tire to spin faster than the other. This allows you to go around corners without the barking associated with a spool (solid locked diff.)."

THANKS AGAIN.

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FordandPolaris · Nov 12, 2013

Yes limited slips can wear like that but it probably would never happen during its lifetime. Mine still works at 220k. Here is a website that helps identify what type of rear end you have (8.8 or 9.75). Like Tony said, it makes a difference in what is available.

What rear end ratio is in my Ford , do I have positraction? - Drivetrain.com

Go to the very bottom of the page. It has a diagram of the 8.8. For whatever reason, they do not show the 9.75, but it is a similar shape to the 10.25 they have on there. If your cover does not match the 8.8 diagram (rounded rectangle with 10 bolts), you have a 9.75.

Also tire bark refers to the inside tire skipping during a turn due to both tires spinning the same speed when locked. Not sure if you were asking what that meant or if you were asking Tony if what he recommended would produce it.

Captain Morgan · Nov 13, 2013

Thanks again, I'll crawl back under there and snap a pic or two and look it up. This was a SSV but I don't know if that made any difference in the size of the rear end.

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Lightnig · Nov 13, 2013

Captain Morgan · Nov 13, 2013

Thanks for the diagrams and info.

I changed clothes and crawled under in the dark, took pics with my phone by pointing in that general direction.

EXPEDITION PICS Slideshow by Captain_Morgan_2600 | Photobucket

To me, it looks like I have a 9.75 whatever-its-called by the shape, larger on the left with a slight dip at the bottom.

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FordandPolaris · Nov 13, 2013

Yes you have the 9.75. Probably the best route is to look for a LSD swap-in or another axle out of an Expy (or F-150 from same model years) that had the LSD. The only thing with doing an F-150 axle is you would have to fabricate the linkage for the lower and upper control arms, since I am pretty sure they were set up a little different.

Captain Morgan · Nov 13, 2013

THANKS!

The code on the pumkin is:

0 5 930 E-1
3 31 9 75 8825

S930-E Expedition 97-99 Navigator 98-99 3.31 9.75 NL

So something like Dana Trac Lok would work?

Are there certain name brands that are good, but not ARB prices?

.

tonydiv · Nov 14, 2013

If you're going to go the new route, then the Dana or this

G2 Axle and Gear Part 45-2012 - Ford 9.75in. Limited Slip - 4 Wheel Parts

Would be a good choice.

They are both 'on road friendly' units that hold up to some pretty good punishment. Neither are going to work as well off road as a locker, but they are also half to 2/3rds the price of those units. You can spend a few bucks more for an Auburn Limited slip, but to be honest, I don't think that you'd notice a big difference.

You may be able to save a few bucks by going used, but you'll probably still have to rebuild the used diff (new clutches).

Captain Morgan · Nov 14, 2013

You could also look at this as an opportunity to change the gear ratios to give the truck some more pep. A jump to 4.11 to 4.30 ish gears would make the truck run and shift more like it did when the stock size rubber was on it.

Mine had 3.73 gears in it stock and I was going to bump up to 4.56, running 35 inch rubber.

If I did this, it would require buying new gears in addition to the differential, and I would need to replace the gears ob both the front and back right?

Maybe this is better served as a 2 step process?

I'm not a crawler, but I do see some rugged country and want to have better traction (at least rear, i have no idea about front) in snow and ice with my big honkin snow chains. I think an average part should do as I doubt I'll keep this truck for too many years. I don't even drive it to work any longer, I have a cushy 10 minute bus commute so I have to leave the battery on a charger. When I drive it, it's to hop down the road a whoppin 2 miles to a burger joint etc.

Thanks again!

.

Captain Morgan · Nov 14, 2013

I talked with a guy at 4wheelparts, and narrowed down some things.

Lockers are out.

Clutch limited slips are less reliable for larger tires than the all gear diffs.

If I go all gear and no clutch, the Detroit - Ford 9.75in. 34 Spline TrueTrac looks like a solid piece.

He suggested that I buy the gears with the diff as a kit to save money, but this is a nice chunk of change!

.

FordandPolaris · Nov 14, 2013

Man for that much money I would just hunt down an LSD used axle.

tonydiv · Nov 14, 2013

Since the labor is basically the same, it's best to do gears and diffs at the same time.

If you do it in stages, you will end up paying double the labor.

Remember, that the only thing that you can put in the front diff is a selectable ($$) locker. That's why so many people keep them 'open'.

Captain Morgan · Nov 15, 2013

Speaking of labor, this isn't something a lay person can\should do?

Requires shims and experienced mojo?

What about just the LSD, is that something a backyard mechanic can do?

.

1998 limited slip

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