Not ANOTHER Engine Noise Thread

[Notrega]

UPDATE #2 IN OP - Not ANOTHER Engine Noise Thread

Cross posted from the 2nd Gen sub-forum...

OK - I have only had my 2005 Expedition a few weeks and after reading on this forum either my Ford has developed sympathetic conditions from all your vehicles, I have lost my mind and imagining things, or my truck is sick...

When I got it there was no engine noise. It was louder, of course, than my 4.6 in my Explorer but no knocks, ticks, etc...

Now there is a tick and a rough 'jumpy' idle that you can feel in the driver's seat.

The tick started a week or so ago...

The rough idle started when the temperature dropped below freezing this past week. My idle is between 500 and 600 and there is no discernible change in RPM or engine noise but driver and passenger can feel jumpy idle. I get stutter/hesitation with low acceleration but it goes away if I give it moderate/heavy acceleration.

I read through the Rough Idle Thread but when I checked, what I hoped was the right line there was no change in the idle and no vacuum felt.

No check engine light or any other indicators showing...

And of course here is a vid from the front of the engine, both sides, both wheel wells, and exhaust.

I have a OBD scanner coming from Amazon, it should be here next week.

What the heck? I can't tell my wife I need to drop $$$ into this thing...

2005 Expedition Engine Noise - YouTube

UPDATE
Consistent code for misfire on #6 - swapping coils doesn't move the code.
Worried about breaking the plug without having the tool. Posted to local forum and guy comes out and confirms #6 misfire and gets the plug pulled.
It was a 5/8" champion plug that was extremely loose...
Popped new motorcraft plug in and runs great.
Now I have to check/change the other 7
Guy listens with stethoscope and says that the passenger timing chain is making the majority of the noise and that cam phasers MAY be part of the issue the timing chains need replacing.
$200 for kit and $100 for all the gaskets and $500 for his labor....
Says I can still drive it and just to be aware of any changes in power, oil pressure, etc... that would indicate timing chain jumped teeth...

Update #2
Timing chain was replaced as well as all the remaining plugs and all gaskets and seals too... Guy inspected the phasers and said they were fine and did not need to be replaced. The engine is still noisy but nothing like before. He said that it was normal engine noise.

 

[bedrck46]

almost sounds like a exhaust leak, or could be a bad bearing on a pulley Try removing the serpentine belt and check all pulleys water pump or even run the engine with the belt removed to see if noise is still present by hand you know if you find a bad one. Just my opinion. If you do run the engine with the belt removed DO NOT run it very long

 

[Notrega]

almost sounds like a exhaust leak, or could be a bad bearing on a pulley Try removing the serpentine belt and check all pulleys water pump or even run the engine with the belt removed to see if noise is still present by hand you know if you find a bad one. Just my opinion. If you do run the engine with the belt removed DO NOT run it very long

Would any of that also cause a rough idle?

I'm no wrench turner... Is pulling the belt and getting it back on difficult?

 

[splintrcel]

Ford engines are going to tick. It doesnt mean any thing bad is happening, its just what they do. Its usually caused by an exhaust leak especially in or around the exhaust manifold. If you really want it to be quiet i used a product called Hyper lube. It goes in your oil and supposedly makes your oil run smoother through the engine but at the least it just dampens the noise your engine will make. If you tried to track every noise your truck made it would drive you to insanity due to the sheer amount of systems that all run in harmony to make your expedition work. If isnt making grinding noises, losing fluid, our running like garbage, your truck is most likely fine.

 

[bedrck46]

pulling the belt isn't all that difficult and there should be a diagram on the front of the engine/radiator shroud. But if your unsure of your ability I would get some help from a friend that knows what to do. First check and see if you have an exhaust leak. I have found that if you take your hand and place it around the exhaust manifolds you will feel a leak ONLY DO THIS on a cold engine when first started as it will get hot fast. Or take a bottle of baby powder and spray around the manifold and if you have a leak you will know wear eye protection when doing this

 

[Notrega]

Ford engines are going to tick. It doesnt mean any thing bad is happening, its just what they do. Its usually caused by an exhaust leak especially in or around the exhaust manifold. If you really want it to be quiet i used a product called Hyper lube. It goes in your oil and supposedly makes your oil run smoother through the engine but at the least it just dampens the noise your engine will make. If you tried to track every noise your truck made it would drive you to insanity due to the sheer amount of systems that all run in harmony to make your expedition work. If isnt making grinding noises, losing fluid, our running like garbage, your truck is most likely fine.

Thanks - not too worried about a minor exhaust leak, but I am unsure what constitutes normal engine noise for this truck. I have read they are noisy and I am ok with that, especially at 142k miles.

My main concern is the jumpy/rough idle...

pulling the belt isn't all that difficult and there should be a diagram on the front of the engine/radiator shroud. But if your unsure of your ability I would get some help from a friend that knows what to do. First check and see if you have an exhaust leak. I have found that if you take your hand and place it around the exhaust manifolds you will feel a leak ONLY DO THIS on a cold engine when first started as it will get hot fast. Or take a bottle of baby powder and spray around the manifold and if you have a leak you will know wear eye protection when doing this

I will try the baby powder, but I am not confident in being able to mess with the belt and don't want to get in too deep.

Thanks!

Any idea on rough idle?

I went out and looked at the pvc vacuum again and noticed that the air induction was disconnected and was just barely connected. See image below - I put it back together and it seems to be better as far as the idle goes, but I haven't driven it yet...

 

[FordandPolaris]

FORD 5.4 with cam phaser issue - YouTube

Sounds a lot like cam phasers to me...

And those will cause problems. That is an issue unique to the 3v 5.4's which you probably do have. Fortunately there is a lot of info out there in that issue, but I still don't think its a cheap fix.

 

[Notrega]

FORD 5.4 with cam phaser issue - YouTube

Sounds a lot like cam phasers to me...

And those will cause problems. That is an issue unique to the 3v 5.4's which you probably do have. Fortunately there is a lot of info out there in that issue, but I still don't think its a cheap fix.

Is it is the cam phasers is this something that I need to stop driving and get it in a shop or is it something that I can drive with? Anything I can do to help it before repairs are required? What could happen if it is ignored?

 

[FordandPolaris]

Is it is the cam phasers is this something that I need to stop driving and get it in a shop or is it something that I can drive with? Anything I can do to help it before repairs are required? What could happen if it is ignored?

I am not 100% sure. I have read opinions on both ends of the spectrum. Some bring it in and have the shop repair it, only to have the motor begin making the same noise again a few days later. Others just let it go until something catastrophic happens. If you google "cam phasers 5.4" you will see all sorts of threads on the issue. Most of them are pertaining to the F-150, but the Expedition has the same basic elements. I think worst case if you just let it go is that they fail completely and lock the motor.

Does it happen all the time, or only after then engine is warmed up? I have also read that if it is indeed the phasers, it usually does not appear until the engine is at operating temp.

 

[Notrega]

I am not 100% sure. I have read opinions on both ends of the spectrum. Some bring it in and have the shop repair it, only to have the motor begin making the same noise again a few days later. Others just let it go until something catastrophic happens. If you google "cam phasers 5.4" you will see all sorts of threads on the issue. Most of them are pertaining to the F-150, but the Expedition has the same basic elements. I think worst case if you just let it go is that they fail completely and lock the motor.

Does it happen all the time, or only after then engine is warmed up? I have also read that if it is indeed the phasers, it usually does not appear until the engine is at operating temp.

All the time, the video was shot with a cold engine.

 

[FordandPolaris]

Yeah then it is tough to say. I would maybe call a shop and see if they have dealt with the phaser issue before, and what they think as to whether it would make the noise on a cold engine or not.

Just the way it sounds to me though, I don't think it would be exhaust. Its too constant in the pattern to be coming from 4 cylinders that do not fire on every other stroke (4 stroke). I have had small exhaust leaks on my truck as well as half the manifold studs missing on my dad's 2000, and both of those exhaust leak situations did not sound like that. It was either a slower tick (small leak), or in the case of my dad's you can pretty much hear each cylinder firing at idle (large leak), which is a very uneven sound if that makes sense.

 

[Notrega]

I have 2 local shops that I trust to give me the straight poop on what's up with it. I will call them and see if they have any experience with the cam phaser issue.

Thanks!

 

[Notrega]

Well mechanic is pretty confident that it is a serious cam phaser issue. Told me $2500 - $4000 ball park to fix??? Seriously??? and this isn't even the dealership.

Basically told me that I should have never bought the truck...

 

[Notrega]

Got an OBD hooked to it - no codes at all...

 

[FordandPolaris]

Yeah I don't know if that is an issue that throws codes. Its kind of like losing a bearing, you have to go more with what you can discern rather than what the truck is telling you. If it fails completely, you will get some kind of code then, but not really helpful at that point. After reading about the phaser issue a little bit, I would be extremely hesitant to buy a 3v 5.4...

Sorry that this happened to you, maybe consider a crate motor 5.0 swap. At least you wouldn't have to worry about the issue reappearing.

I would guess that they pull the motor in order to reach the phasers. There is very little room to work on them when they are in the truck, so that is probably where most of the cost is going. Its too bad that it has become such an issue.

 

[Notrega]

It finally threw a code and the CEL came on - three to be precise. 2 related to a misfire on #6 and a genetic 'network'code.







I plan to move the coil around tomorrow if it doesn't rain to see if the problem follows the coil or its the plug or both... it it is just the coil I will likely just replace that one for now.

As for the rest of it - I plan to work minor things to get the rough idle and hesitation fixed but I plan to drive it until it breaks. The cost of tearing into it to fix it isn't worth fixing it when I can replace the engine and add things like the cam phaser limiters and different oil pump and have a better vehicle for not much more money.

 

[darmahsd]

If you haven't reached a certain mileage level yet, I think 125K, Ford's got a warranty on faulty phasers damaging engines.
Check into that.
I have that bulletin that came with my '05 when I bought it in '12, but have no noise@70K, knock on wood. If I didn't have the protection of that warranty, I would look into a setup that may be available locking the cams in place, before I spent $1400. Just a matter of removing your valve covers and making sure you don't get the timing out of wack. The phasers are just for variable valve timing through the rev range to improve fuel economy. From what I've heard, you won't loose much by locking them in one position. Might have to reboot ECU.
Really doubt that you have to remove engine to do that job. Everything's on top.

 

[bedrck46]

when you change the coil check the boot for any signs that the misfire is due to a pin-hole in the boot or change the boot as they are available from advance auto

 

[Notrega]

when you change the coil check the boot for any signs that the misfire is due to a pin-hole in the boot or change the boot as they are available from advance auto

I pulled the #6 coil and the #5 coil and swapped them. It still throws #6 misfire but it is not throwing the code as consistently as before.

I did not inspect the boot... how does the boot come out?

 

[bedrck46]

the boot just pulls off the coil