P0017 - Dealership just said new engine

[FreshMN]

So yesterday the engine light came on, I stopped in at autozone, the only code was P0017.
Might’ve had a rougher idle, but not significant or dramatically different. Dropped it off at dealership before work, they just called and said it needs a new engine. Does that seem accurate, 53,000 miles w/ regular oil changes!!

 

[Habbibie]

Just so we're clear here's what triggers a P0017 code:

P0017 code definition
Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation (Bank 1 Sensor B)

What the P0017 code means
P0017 is the OBD-II generic code indicating that the crankshaft and camshaft position sensor for bank 1 exhaust camshaft do not correlate signals with each other.

What causes the P0017 code?

• The valve timing is out of position from a timing chain jumped out of position.
  
  
• There are oil flow problems to the phaser from incorrect oil viscosity or partly clogged passages.
  
  
• The oil control valve (OCV) has a restriction in the OCV filter.
  
  
• There is an exhaust timing gear problem with phaser causing camshaft misalignment.
  

What are the symptoms of the P0017 code?

• The Check Engine Light will come on and the power to camshaft OCV will be turned off.
  
  
• The engine may idle normally, but have a reduction in power.
  
  
• The engine may run erratically or run rough on acceleration.
  
  
• The fuel mileage may decrease due to camshafts not being in the optimal positions.
  

Note: The drive complaints may vary depending on the manufacturer failure mode during a problem with the system.

How does a mechanic diagnose the P0017 code?

• Does a visual check for problems with the connections or wiring of the OCV, camshaft and crankshaft sensors
  
  
• Verifies that the engine oil is full of clean, correct viscosity oil
  
  
• Scans and documents the engine codes, then views the freeze frame data to see when the codes were set
  
  
• Resets the Check Engine Light and road tests again to see if the code returns
  
  
• Commands the OCV on and off to see if the camshaft sensor is indicating timing changes for the bank 1 exhaust camshaft
  
  
• Performs the manufacturer’s tests for the P0017 code, to determine the cause of the code.
  

Note: The manufacturer's recommended pinpoint test is used to narrow down the problem. Following the recommended tests will help with diagnosis without replacing the wrong parts.

Common mistakes when diagnosing the P0017 code?

• Not verifying whether the failure and codes are active during diagnosis
  
  
• Not visually checking the wiring or connections to verify they are undamaged
  
  
• Not following all pinpoint test steps in the correct order
  
  
• Repairing or replacing components that are were not directed by the pinpoint test or visual check
  

How serious is the P0017 code?

• The engine carbon build up may cause fouled spark plugs, causing misfires.
  
  
• Timing chains may have tensioners or guides that are allowing the timing chain to jump the gear teeth, leading to major engine damage from valves and pistons hitting.
  
  
• Driving the vehicle for a prolonged time with the camshaft problems can start to cause other drive symptoms like misfires, stalling, and no starts.
  

What repairs can fix the P0017 code?

• Resetting the engine fault codes and verifying that the problem is still occurring
• Replacing the camshaft position sensor on a failed camshaft bank
• Repairing or replacing the wiring connection to the camshaft sensor or the OCV
• Replacing the Engine Control Module
• Replacing the timing gears, chain, and guides for both engine banks
• Cleaning the engine carbon from pistons and valves after the code repairs

Additional comments for consideration regarding the P0017 code
Code P0017 can cause the engine to get carbon build up inside the cylinder and on the valves. This is caused from improper combustion of the fuel mixture from camshaft alignment problems. The engine may need to be decarbonized after repairs are made.

 

[Habbibie]

So yesterday the engine light came on, I stopped in at autozone, the only code was P0017.
Might’ve had a rougher idle, but not significant or dramatically different. Dropped it off at dealership before work, they just called and said it needs a new engine. Does that seem accurate, 53,000 miles w/ regular oil changes!!

Dealers dont always hire the most combatant mechanics out there and they tend to say replace entire engine when they're unsure how to fix something to increase profits and eliminate any chance of misdiagnosis

 

[JExpedition07]

Sounds like a shady unprofessional dealer to me.

 

[FreshMN]

Thanks for the info! I was able to put most of that together from searching but that post was lot more concise! Where did you pull that from?

I bought the Expy a year ago, first time i’ve bought an extended warranty, so maybe that doesn’t help the “combativeness” of said mechanics either.

 

[Habbibie]

Thanks for the info! I was able to put most of that together from searching but that post was lot more concise! Where did you pull that from?

Googled "p0017 Ford 5.4L"

https://www.yourmechanic.com/articl...on-correlation-bank-1-sensor-b-by-jay-safford

Notice how it doesnt mention engine replacement in the "what repairs code p0017" subsection, at the worst after a repair the engine needs to be decarbonized... sounds like a job for seafoam..

 

[JExpedition07]

deleted

 

[Trainmaster]

This is Ford warranty work? The warranty labor rate is pretty low. Maybe that's why they want to do a complete replacement. They can usually send that out and make money on it.

 

[Habbibie]

If its warranty work then hell I wont mind a new engine (none of that refurbished crap though) but I would have to take a loaner until the repairs are made.... that's if its warranty work, possiblity is that it's not that's why he/she is asking for input/help

 

[JExpedition07]

Ford normally won’t do a new engine under warranty. They will put in a rebuilt engine for warranty work in most instances.

 

[Flight-ER-Doc]

Thanks for the info! I was able to put most of that together from searching but that post was lot more concise! Where did you pull that from?

I bought the Expy a year ago, first time i’ve bought an extended warranty, so maybe that doesn’t help the “combativeness” of said mechanics either.

Hey, it's work for the shop, so sure they want to do it...

 

[tilliepeople]

Ford normally won’t do a new engine under warranty. They will put in a rebuilt engine for warranty work in most instances.

If the dealer wants to put in a rebuild engine under warranty then go for it.
If on the other hand they want to jerk you around then have them do whats under warranty work and go someplace else for an engine.
Sounds like you may only need a timing chain but an engine would be nice ,even at 53K
Some times rebuilt is better than new because they have been fully checked were as new is just put together.

 

[ElliottM]

Dealers dont always hire the most combatant mechanics out there and they tend to say replace entire engine when they're unsure how to fix something to increase profits and eliminate any chance of misdiagnosis

Sorry, I have to reply to this. I personally hope dealers don't hire combatant mechanics! I'm looking for competent mechanics myself. LOL, started my day with a chuckle. Not meaning to pick on you, Habbibie.

 

[rjdelp7]

No way Ford or 'extended insurance', will replace an entire engine that just runs ruff. It would have to be catastrophic failure. Even then, maybe.

 

[Trainmaster]

The warranty replacement would depend on the choice of dealership. It's a big ticket item for the dealer's service department, even at the reduced warranty labor rates. Some dealers are given full say over this type of work, others must submit evidence to Ford to be reimbursed. Depends on the dealer's warranty track record.

 

[Habbibie]

Sorry, I have to reply to this. I personally hope dealers don't hire combatant mechanics! I'm looking for competent mechanics myself. LOL, started my day with a chuckle. Not meaning to pick on you, Habbibie.

LoL damn I was hoping it'd go unnoticed after I read it myself but I'm glad it made your day, posts like these are rare and far between

 

[FreshMN]

No way Ford or 'extended insurance', will replace an entire engine that just runs ruff. It would have to be catastrophic failure. Even then, maybe.

They said oil pressure was low and timing was off. New engine is running great and getting close to 2 mpg better. Repair was about $7,500, all covered. I was very close to not getting extended warranty, have always been told it wasn't worth it. It cost me an extra $1,900 on the $23k vehicle.

I had brought it in a couple months prior to the same dealership because I was concerned about timing chain, when starting cold I could hear the slightest knocking/struggle(not sure how to describe it) for the initial 2-3 seconds then as I assume pressure built up it would return to normal. I only happened to hear it when using the remote start and was close to it, couldn't hear from inside. Their diagnostic was simply that I was not using the same oil filter as Ford, which as I understand it, has a flange that doesn't allow oil to drip/drain down when sitting.(I've seen others comment on this on the forum). The only reason timing chain was on my mind was I had convinced my colleague to get an expedition as he was looking for something to just haul the boat and friends to the lake on the weekends. He bought an 08 Expy with some 130,*** miles. Ended up having his timing chain break, which as I understand it, can be fairly catastrophic to an engine. It was only a couple weeks out from purchase(same Ford dealership I use) and no warranty. The dealership went 50/50 on the repair and remanufactured engine.

 

[Adieu]

They said oil pressure was low and timing was off. New engine is running great and getting close to 2 mpg better. Repair was about $7,500, all covered. I was very close to not getting extended warranty, have always been told it wasn't worth it. It cost me an extra $1,900 on the $23k vehicle.

I had brought it in a couple months prior to the same dealership because I was concerned about timing chain, when starting cold I could hear the slightest knocking/struggle(not sure how to describe it) for the initial 2-3 seconds then as I assume pressure built up it would return to normal. I only happened to hear it when using the remote start and was close to it, couldn't hear from inside. Their diagnostic was simply that I was not using the same oil filter as Ford, which as I understand it, has a flange that doesn't allow oil to drip/drain down when sitting.(I've seen others comment on this on the forum). The only reason timing chain was on my mind was I had convinced my colleague to get an expedition as he was looking for something to just haul the boat and friends to the lake on the weekends. He bought an 08 Expy with some 130,*** miles. Ended up having his timing chain break, which as I understand it, can be fairly catastrophic to an engine. It was only a couple weeks out from purchase(same Ford dealership I use) and no warranty. The dealership went 50/50 on the repair and remanufactured engine.

2 out of 2? And at virgin miles for one, and schoolgirl miles for the other????

WTH are you people doing to your poor poor timing chains?

That ain't normal, and if both trucks are from the same dealership...I'd suspect the dealership service department is systematically doing something seriously wrong to eff em up that bad.

Sure as hell wouldn't go there again.

 

[1955moose]

I'm definitely a no dealer myself, but could somebody explain how a dealer tech could be doing something that could be damaging timing chains?

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[JExpedition07]

Timing chain breaking on one of these engines is an anomaly and doesn’t really happen much if ever. The 5.4 has dual chains.....strong setup as far as that goes.