Do Gen 3’s Spy on Us??

[2015owner2015]

Do Gen 3 vehicles transmit Location or any other personal information to any 3rd parties?

 

[16plati]

No

 

[762mm]

Depends on the model you've got, I'd guess. Mine is bare bones with the stock old school radio/single CD, which is the reason I fell in love with the truck at the dealer : no B.S. technology on the dash, just the bare necessities and analog gauges!

The limited, platinum and other fancy ones (Navigator) probably do have some form of tracking, with their fancy GPS units built in. It's very easy and cheap to do. Don't forget that one of the biggest businesses these days is information (as in: your personal data). So, if your car can track your movements and patterns, that info has a lot of commercial value for big players like Google and Apple, but to others as well.

Ford Motor Co could make a very nice extra profit by covertly selling that info under their "terms of service" of GPS navigation systems... at least in theory.

Same applies to all other automakers these days.

 

[Plati]

Do Gen 3 vehicles transmit Location or any other personal information to any 3rd parties?

Do you mean in real time, by the vehicle by itself? That would require a built in cell phone connection , right? Mine doesn't have that. Also no connection to a satellite for uplink.

 

[762mm]

Do you mean in real time, by the vehicle by itself? That would require a built in cell phone connection , right? Mine doesn't have that. Also no connection to a satellite for uplink.

Not necessarily. They could, theoretically, transmit by radio waves on some frequencies and cell towers could pick them up no problem. Telecom companies have secured all kind of bands for "future development" with the FCC in the USA and the CRTC in Canada not long ago.

Or it could simply collect the data and then transmit to a 3rd party server whenever in range of a recognized or unprotected WiFi network. Some higher end trucks even come with "internet WiFi built in" nowadays... so the whole family can watch cat videos on road trips!

(the latter are almost guaranteed to track you, lol!)


Anyway, if data collection / tracking is true on 3rd and 4th gens, this would be way above consumer-grade tech. Sort of like OnStar, which doesn't require a cell phone to work.

 

[2015owner2015]

Forgot to mention, I have a 2015 with GPS. They did have a phone home ability I think until they discontinued the sync service, vehicle report, etc

 

[762mm]

Forgot to mention, I have a 2015 with GPS. They did have a phone home ability I think until they discontinued the sync service, vehicle report, etc

That's what they told everyone... but did they really "discontinue" the reporting feature?

 

[max78]

I know GM's OnStar privacy policy was updated and states they can collect whatever they want whenever they want for any reason they want and will share it with whoever they want for any reason.

Read your privacy policy and it will be a good indicator of what they are legally allowed to collect.

Both of my vehicles are base models and have no fancy equipment

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

I know GM's OnStar privacy policy was updated and states they can collect whatever they want whenever they want for any reason they want and will share it with whoever they want for any reason.

Read your privacy policy and it will be a good indicator of what they are legally allowed to collect.

Both of my vehicles are base models and have no fancy equipment

I have a 2015 Ford Expedition Limited 4x4 and a GM vehicle with an active OnStar account.

I have been unable to find PROOF of the statement you made about GM’s OnStar policy (scope and breadth of it).

Can you provide proof of what you have stated? Thank you.

 

[max78]

I have a 2015 Ford Expedition Limited 4x4 and a GM vehicle with an active OnStar account.

I have been unable to find PROOF of the statement you made about GM’s OnStar policy (scope and breadth of it).

Can you provide proof of what you have stated? Thank you.

You have been unable to find PROOF? Are you unable to look up onstars privacy policy, here let me get that for you. . . .

https://www.onstar.com/us/en/privacy_statement/

I figured you would read and understand the actual policy and not need a clickbate news organization to feed it to you, but here you go.

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/o...pany-record-car-information/story?id=14581571

 

[Captain Kirk]

Depends on the model you've got, I'd guess. Mine is bare bones with the stock old school radio/single CD, which is the reason I fell in love with the truck at the dealer : no B.S. technology on the dash, just the bare necessities and analog gauges!

The limited, platinum and other fancy ones (Navigator) probably do have some form of tracking, with their fancy GPS units built in. It's very easy and cheap to do. Don't forget that one of the biggest businesses these days is information (as in: your personal data). So, if your car can track your movements and patterns, that info has a lot of commercial value for big players like Google and Apple, but to others as well.

Ford Motor Co could make a very nice extra profit by covertly selling that info under their "terms of service" of GPS navigation systems... at least in theory.

Same applies to all other automakers these days.

Fyi your cell phone already does all of that and more...

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

You have been unable to find PROOF? Are you unable to look up onstars privacy policy, here let me get that for you. . . .

https://www.onstar.com/us/en/privacy_statement/

I figured you would read and understand the actual policy and not need a clickbate news organization to feed it to you, but here you go.

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/o...pany-record-car-information/story?id=14581571

Thank you for your information and reply.

About six years ago, my adult son was hit head-on while driving his wife’s Saturn Vue. The striking vehicle was a 2500 series GMC pickup truck.

I had paid for active OnStar crash notification subscriptions for that vehicle and his vehicle, also a GM vehicle. Both had told me several times that the subscription was unnecessary because they both had cell phones.

In the crash, my son’s air bag and seat belt pretensions deployed. He was knocked unconscious and the vehicle was demolished.

The OnStar system activated immediately, and OnStar notified the police and emergency medical responders.

My son came to while the police and fire personnel were trying to remove him from the vehicle. He was transported, and admitted to a hospital.

I never realized the extent of the data collection - but would have to say it is a trade-off for the peace-of-mind and safety protection.

I’ve been driving for 50 years and I’m convinced that there is very little we can do to prevent the collection and storage of personal data on us. I’m not happy about it - just a realist.

Thank you again for your information.

PS - I almost didn’t buy the new Expedition (my first Ford) due to the lack of an automatic crash notification system such as OnStar. I realize it will cause your phone to dial 911, but that only works if your in an area with phone service.

 

[max78]

I'm sorry to hear about your son, I'm glad the OnStar was able to help your family in record time.

I can see how something like that would great to have for something like that.

But my problem is they turned it from a great security feature to keep the family safe, to malware that collects any and all information they can, while still masquerading as only a security feature. Not only are they making a bunch of money off of you and your families private information, you are paying them to do that.

Big companies will always do this, I get it. We need updated laws to deal with invasion of privacy.

 

[bobmbx]

I'm sorry to hear about your son, I'm glad the OnStar was able to help your family in record time.

I can see how something like that would great to have for something like that.

But my problem is they turned it from a great security feature to keep the family safe, to malware that collects any and all information they can, while still masquerading as only a security feature. Not only are they making a bunch of money off of you and your families private information, you are paying them to do that.

Big companies will always do this, I get it. We need updated laws to deal with invasion of privacy.

Stop paying for the service, and disconnect the wires to the antenna. Its a simple thing to do. Your car is also spying on you in other ways. All automobiles are now manufactured with "black boxes" that record all sorts of data. Get a good scanner and you can see just how much different data can be recorded. The insurance companies just love it. If you're ever in an accident, $10 says the first thing the adjuster does is hook up a scanner to your OBDII port and downloads the "crash data".

You say you weren't speeding....black box says vehicle speed was 77 mph in a 55 mph zone
You say you swerved to try to avoid the crash....black box says steering angle never deviated until impact
You say you hit the brakes hard.....black box says brakes were not applied until after impact.

Black box time/date stamp of impact coincides with cell phone records that show your phone was on a call at same time.

CLAIM DENIED.

 

[max78]

Stop paying for the service, and disconnect the wires to the antenna. Its a simple thing to do. Your car is also spying on you in other ways. All automobiles are now manufactured with "black boxes" that record all sorts of data. Get a good scanner and you can see just how much different data can be recorded. The insurance companies just love it. If you're ever in an accident, $10 says the first thing the adjuster does is hook up a scanner to your OBDII port and downloads the "crash data".

You say you weren't speeding....black box says vehicle speed was 77 mph in a 55 mph zone
You say you swerved to try to avoid the crash....black box says steering angle never deviated until impact
You say you hit the brakes hard.....black box says brakes were not applied until after impact.

Black box time/date stamp of impact coincides with cell phone records that show your phone was on a call at same time.

CLAIM DENIED.

Ya, I remember watching a show about various crimes and remember one episode because of exactly that. The black box in the car told the real story.

It was about a depressed teen that wanted to commit suicide, she was driving down the road and crashed into a family of 4. Killed the entire family while she lived. She blamed it all on the family she killed, but the black box in her car told a different story. She floored it and ****** the wheel into their lane. It was beyond messed up. Not sure what happened to her.

 

[762mm]

I get it that OnStar and cell phones do a lot of good, but they are also insidious little devices. For that reason, I adhere to this line of thinking :

"Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin


I carry a cell phone with me because it's a work requirement. If not, it would be constantly off unless I make a call. I already have location and all kinds of data collection turned off on it and don't do things like FreakBook or Twatter (social media).


Technology has to have clear boundaries defined and more is not always "better".

 

[G213]

Stop paying for the service, and disconnect the wires to the antenna. Its a simple thing to do. Your car is also spying on you in other ways. All automobiles are now manufactured with "black boxes" that record all sorts of data. Get a good scanner and you can see just how much different data can be recorded. The insurance companies just love it. If you're ever in an accident, $10 says the first thing the adjuster does is hook up a scanner to your OBDII port and downloads the "crash data".

You say you weren't speeding....black box says vehicle speed was 77 mph in a 55 mph zone
You say you swerved to try to avoid the crash....black box says steering angle never deviated until impact
You say you hit the brakes hard.....black box says brakes were not applied until after impact.

Black box time/date stamp of impact coincides with cell phone records that show your phone was on a call at same time.

CLAIM DENIED.

I get it that OnStar and cell phones do a lot of good, but they are also insidious little devices. For that reason, I adhere to this line of thinking :

"Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin


I carry a cell phone with me because it's a work requirement. If not, it would be constantly off unless I make a call. I already have location and all kinds of data collection turned off on it and don't do things like FreakBook or Twatter (social media).


Technology has to have clear boundaries defined and more is not always "better".

As someone who makes a living by engineering technology every day, it's an interesting concept to ponder.

On one hand, technology has made our lives easier, safer and more efficient. Perfect example above, OnStar automatically dispatched emergency services when a driver was knocked unconscious. I think we'd all agree that's a win. Or even this website, has helped me numerous times with solving issues on my truck...another win.

Then on the other hand, you have the above...where that same technology can be used against you. But, one could argue that it's not right to lie about an accident...and if I were the other driver in the above hypothetical situation, I'd be happy to know that the claim adjuster got the story straight and held the proper person accountable.

Then again, no matter what the intention is, you can take the surveillance state idealism way too far. Example...China's Social Credit System. Cruise around on Google to learn more, but basically, China is rolling out a system now that monitors numerous aspects of every citizens life and using that data to make trust based decisions....such as allowing you to travel or get a loan. Some of the factors monitored are pretty wild; you play too many online video games, point deduction. You jaywalk, point deduction. But it goes the other way too...attend a pro china government rally, point increase. Pay your taxes early, point increase.

So what are we willing to sacrifice for convenience, safety and efficiency? And is it fair to effectively force the general public into these sacrifices, for the good of us all? I mean sure, you don't HAVE to use the internet or a smart phone...but doing business without that today is difficult, if not impossible in many ways. (Example: You can't rent movies any more without a credit card...even if you don't use the internet and go to a red box...and there's no such thing as blockbuster anymore)

And even still, what if I'm ok with one company having my location information...like OnStar, but not another? No company is hack-proof, it's only a matter of time before that data gets out. But will it be important or relevant enough by that time for someone to use against me?

Honestly, I think the best thing you can do is educate yourself and have that awareness. Then you can decide what you're willing to live with.

Here's something to consider: Google is a for profit company, so by definition, they sell a product for profit. But then how can they give away all these great services, like gmail and chrome, for free? It's because they do sell a product...YOU. More specifically, your data IS their product...and whenever you use their services, you agree that they can sell your data as they please. Food for thought.

And if that's not enough...I've had to testify in court on two separate occasions about mobile device management on personal cellular devices...that's a fun story.

 

[762mm]

As someone who makes a living by engineering technology every day, it's an interesting concept to ponder.

You make valid points and, just to be clear, I am not against technology. I am against intrusive or insidious technology, which does things behind your back without your explicit consent and understanding. In a nutshell, there's a huge lack of transparency in the tech sector.

Imagine for a second a new product: a smart phone which is capable, secure and only does what you allow it to do. It doesn't require "permissions" to your location needlessly like many Android apps do, it doesn't call home in the background without asking, it doesn't send anything about you to anyone unless you allow it, it can't get hacked or infected (runs sandboxed).

How many people would pay a premium for such a phone? I know I would. I had a smart phone that came close to it and it was a Windows 8.1 phone (HTC 8x). Those things were not loaded with bloatware, were impossible to infect with a virus and ran great despite unimpressive hardware specs, because they would not run constant black magic in the background. The phone would never crash and never exhibit any problem. You could literally never turn it off and it would work for a year or more without a reboot, as long as you charged the battery.

Unfortunately I retired it because Windows Phone lacked support for the latest apps I needed for work. Many people crave a simple, reliable and trustworthy product... and the day a tech company understands this, they will make a fortune (supply & demand).



Why do you think there's more and more people seeking older SUVs and trucks with minimal tech as restoration projects these days? Because not everyone is impressed with unreliable turbos, CVT transmissions and Bluetooth power seats, just because some marketing jerkoffs made a Superbowl commercial...

 

[G213]

I get it that OnStar and cell phones do a lot of good, but they are also insidious little devices. For that reason, I adhere to this line of thinking :

"Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin


I carry a cell phone with me because it's a work requirement. If not, it would be constantly off unless I make a call. I already have location and all kinds of data collection turned off on it and don't do things like FreakBook or Twatter (social media).


Technology has to have clear boundaries defined and more is not always "better".

In a nutshell, there's a huge lack of transparency in the tech sector.



Why do you think there's more and more people seeking older SUVs and trucks with minimal tech as restoration projects these days? Because not everyone is impressed with unreliable turbos, CVT transmissions and Bluetooth power seats, just because some marketing jerkoffs made a Superbowl commercial...

I completely agree. The 90 page terms and conditions for each service are absolute legal loophole nonsense....and give no real valid information about what the use of a service means for your data. And there’s no law or oversight on this...so a company can take all your private data, and then sell it on the dark web for all you know....because hey, you clicked agree!

And again, I completely agree. The amount of technology being forced into vehicles these days is staggering, and EXPENSIVE. Side mirror? That will be $40 bucks. Oh, side mirror with turn signal, heat, and a blind spot camera, that’s $750 please.

A buddy of mine a couple years ago bought a new Yukon Denali...beautiful truck. One day he’s driving along and gets an idiot light on the dash for his 4x4 system. So naturally, he brings it back to the dealer. What happened? Well GM pushed a software update to these particular trucks over cellular which accidentally broke the 4x4 transfer case software and it had to be reprogrammed. So yeah, GM pushed a software update, with no notice to the owners, which broke their 4x4. That’s kinda scary...what’s next, you going to update my braking software while I’m on the freeway?

And no, I didn’t get the anti technology vibe from your previous post, I completely understand and agree with concerns around the invasive side of technology.

Honestly, I think we need more people asking these types of questions and holding companies accountable. Some big scandal will happen and we’ll talk about it for a little bit and then everyone kind of forgets. I mean, remember the school district in PA that was spying on kids using their school laptops?? All the parents were up in arms about that! And I mean, they should be, it was an absurd situation......But then those same parents turn around and let their kids post whatever pictures they want to Facebook and Instagram...lol

 

[jeff kushner]

Wow....a lot of stuff but no one here really knows the answer to the OP's post, right? Everyone is guessing....but we know darn well that if a nickle can be made from selling our info, anyone who can, will. Read that again and if you are naive enough to think otherwise, you are one of PT Barnum's namesakes.

You can always go off the grid akin to a character in the Red movie series but the reality is, you've already been assigned a # long ago. Every new email addy gets a # too.....what the algorithms do(1 tiny part) is to combine these into a single # when they are able to connect the same living unit to the various addresses. When you are under cameras public and private for 35% of your day, the programs get pretty accurate. Now, as you drive through your community or that of a friend, Ring directly supplies Google with additional info about you and your friends....and the circle gets tighter and tighter and tighter....hmmmm, what is it that China began last year?

jeff