Noise on start up

[Shantheman73]

Update (hopefully last one!)
Got my Expy back today. Starts and runs smooth!

It did throw a check engine light in the first 30 min driving it though. I took it back and they ran diagnostics and it was the cam phasers (which I had locked and then the engine reprogrammed, since the shop highly recommended doing so b/c they’ve done a lot of these 5.4’s).

The mechanic said to drive it for a few days and if it throws the engine light again they’ll try reprogramming it a second time. He said the 2007’s are harder to reprogram for some reason.

At least she’s starting and running smooth again! Thanks everyone for your input and help with the tensioner issue.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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[07navi]

Update (hopefully last one!)
Got my Expy back today. Starts and runs smooth!

It did throw a check engine light in the first 30 min driving it though. I took it back and they ran diagnostics and it was the cam phasers (which I had locked and then the engine reprogrammed, since the shop highly recommended doing so b/c they’ve done a lot of these 5.4’s).

The mechanic said to drive it for a few days and if it throws the engine light again they’ll try reprogramming it a second time. He said the 2007’s are harder to reprogram for some reason.

At least she’s starting and running smooth again! Thanks everyone for your input and help with the tensioner issue.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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Bad idea locking the phasers and they may never get it programed. People are buying extra software just to do that. Ford went to all the trouble to perfect that engine and they took it a step backwards. The phasers add hp and decrease mpg's. Plus now it might not smog.

 

[07navi]

Bad idea locking the phasers and they may never get it programed. People are buying extra software just to do that. Ford went to all the trouble to perfect that engine and they took it a step backwards. The phasers add hp and decrease mpg's. I hope they didn't charge you much for sticking those plugs in there.

 

[Shantheman73]

Bad idea locking the phasers and they may never get it programed. People are buying extra software just to do that. Ford went to all the trouble to perfect that engine and they took it a step backwards. The phasers add hp and decrease mpg's.

I appreciate your input, you’ve stated such before. I went with what the shop recommended since they have done a lot of the 5.4’s and also know a few things.
With 170k miles...I’m not interested in having to open this thing up again if the phasers require fixing down the road. If I lose some HP on the top end, so be it.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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[TobyU]

I appreciate your input, you’ve stated such before. I went with what the shop recommended since they have done a lot of the 5.4’s and also know a few things.
With 170k miles...I’m not interested in having to open this thing up again if the phasers require fixing down the road. If I lose some HP on the top end, so be it.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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I don't know that I would trust a shop that recommends locking the phasers. There's plenty of information out there about it and is considered not the best idea. If you're going to have the front end apart it's much smarter just to put new improve components in there so they can work as designed and not fail. The lockouts for the first Band-Aid fix to hit the market when these first started giving trouble but hardly any reputable mechanics recommend using them. I think you would be hard-pressed to find any dealer that would do them or even mess with one that has them.
You'll probably never be able to get the check engine light to stay off as long as they're locked out unless they go to the extreme of having special tuner or software that makes the light stay out when phasers are installed.
Not to say you won't get plenty of years out of it but you are sacrificing the end is ability to adjust the timing for low and mid-range power and then Highway range Power along with increase fuel mileage.
With good replacement components you will get the same number of trouble for years and have the best of both worlds without sacrificing.
If you were to do a lot of research and check with shops repairing these you would find many more recommending against lockouts than for or installing them.
But at this point, it's done so just go with it.
But don't go around recommending people to get the lockouts put on because it's not the best way to approach the situation.

 

[07navi]

I appreciate your input, you’ve stated such before. I went with what the shop recommended since they have done a lot of the 5.4’s and also know a few things.
With 170k miles...I’m not interested in having to open this thing up again if the phasers require fixing down the road. If I lose some HP on the top end, so be it.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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Makuloco knows a lot too but won't put them in, I just hope they didn't charge much for that easy "fix".

 

[07navi]

I don't know that I would trust a shop that recommends locking the phasers. There's plenty of information out there about it and is considered not the best idea. If you're going to have the front end apart it's much smarter just to put new improve components in there so they can work as designed and not fail. The lockouts for the first Band-Aid fix to hit the market when these first started giving trouble but hardly any reputable mechanics recommend using them. I think you would be hard-pressed to find any dealer that would do them or even mess with one that has them.
You'll probably never be able to get the check engine light to stay off as long as they're locked out unless they go to the extreme of having special tuner or software that makes the light stay out when phasers are installed.
Not to say you won't get plenty of years out of it but you are sacrificing the end is ability to adjust the timing for low and mid-range power and then Highway range Power along with increase fuel mileage.
With good replacement components you will get the same number of trouble for years and have the best of both worlds without sacrificing.
If you were to do a lot of research and check with shops repairing these you would find many more recommending against lockouts than for or installing them.
But at this point, it's done so just go with it.
But don't go around recommending people to get the lockouts put on because it's not the best way to approach the situation.

You beat me by seconds...lol. I agree, they probably did a lot of them because they don't always have mechanics that can or want to do it right. To me it's like sabotaging your vehicle...…..bad idea.

 

[rjdelp7]

Ford designed a specialty tool, called a cheese wedge. It locks the timing chain in place. It allows for removal of just the phaser, without taking off the timing cover. It cuts labor down to a couple of hours(from over 11). Locking the pin is hack mechanic work. A shop 'familiar' with the 5.4l, would know about the new fix.

 

[07navi]

Ford designed a specialty tool, called a cheese wedge. It locks the timing chain in place. It allows for removal of just the phaser, without taking off the timing cover. It cuts labor down to a couple of hours(from over 11). Locking the pin is hack mechanic work. A shop 'familiar' with the 5.4l, would know about the new fix.

Yes it mainly keeps the chain from dropping off the bottom of the crank sprocket and making replacing the phaser a "breeze" but they want a "piece of cake" on the customers dime.

 

[TobyU]

Ford designed a specialty tool, called a cheese wedge. It locks the timing chain in place. It allows for removal of just the phaser, without taking off the timing cover. It cuts labor down to a couple of hours(from over 11). Locking the pin is hack mechanic work. A shop 'familiar' with the 5.4l, would know about the new fix.

Yes, the lockouts are hack work or a Band-Aid fix. As I said earlier they might last 15 years but you're sacrificing. Do it with upgraded high quality parts because there's very little difference in the price the parts. It's all about the labor.
Then you'll get the same longevity but you'll get better power curves, performance miles per gallon.

 

[Shantheman73]

Yes, the lockouts are hack work or a Band-Aid fix. As I said earlier they might last 15 years but you're sacrificing. Do it with upgraded high quality parts because there's very little difference in the price the parts. It's all about the labor.
Then you'll get the same longevity but you'll get better power curves, performance miles per gallon.

I hear you. It was a sacrifice I opted to make. Like I said earlier...I've spent way more $ on this 2007 than I expected to, and since I'd already done so many repairs/upgrades on it...I couldn't just walk away from it. At the same time...I'm not going to spend another dollar cracking open the engine again either. It has 170k on it. If this meant some less HP but no future issues with cam phasers (a known weak spot on these engines)...then I'm all in.

O7Navi, I said I appreciate your input. But I also have the right to recommend lock-outs as much as you have the right to NOT recommend them. Your statement sounded awfully controlling and un-american.

 

[07navi]

I hear you. It was a sacrifice I opted to make. Like I said earlier...I've spent way more $ on this 2007 than I expected to, and since I'd already done so many repairs/upgrades on it...I couldn't just walk away from it. At the same time...I'm not going to spend another dollar cracking open the engine again either. It has 170k on it. If this meant some less HP but no future issues with cam phasers (a known weak spot on these engines)...then I'm all in.

O7Navi, I said I appreciate your input. But I also have the right to recommend lock-outs as much as you have the right to NOT recommend them. Your statement sounded awfully controlling and un-american.

Just trying to make a point mainly for others since it's too late in your case but it is your car and there were 2 others that agreed with me above...…...whatever. Sorry I tried to help you now. You could have consulted the forum before agreeing to a quick fix by shysters. We were trying to help you all along but now you will spend more on gas than you saved, it might not smog, and those cel's are hard or impossible to get rid of. Also, those phasers were in good shape and possibly new to start with, you wanted our help but now we are controlling.

 

[WEDGE]

Wow, that start up noise is awful lol. Glad to hear you got it taken care of. I myself installed phaser lockouts in my sister's 2007 Expedition Limited. At the same time I also did the chains, tensioners, guides and Melling oil pump (not the HV pump) She wanted trouble free driving for a couple more years, and that's what we got. She recently bought an F-150 5.0 and the Expedition is up for sale.

I did the job a little over 2 years ago now. Lockouts came with an SCT X4 tuner with a custom file for the VCT lockout installed in it. The engine runs silky smooth, doesn't appear to be down on power in any way and is whisper quiet. Only sound we can hear is the injectors clicking. With the tuner installed there has never been an engine light at all. Some of you call this a hack job repair by "shysters" but I had great luck with it, with no noticeable ill effects. We also switched to a 5w30 synthetic and FL-820S filter as per Fordtechmakuloco's recommendation.

 

[Shantheman73]

Just trying to make a point mainly for others since it's too late in your case but it is your car and there were 2 others that agreed with me above...…...whatever. Sorry I tried to help you now. You could have consulted the forum before agreeing to a quick fix by shysters. We were trying to help you all along but now you will spend more on gas than you saved, it might not smog, and those cel's are hard or impossible to get rid of. Also, those phasers were in good shape and possibly new to start with, you wanted our help but now we are controlling.

I heard your advice and others and was very kind thanking you for it. But I chose to lock them out. Your response came across harsh and controlling. It’s possible to kindly disagree without the rhetoric.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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[Shantheman73]

Wow, that start up noise is awful lol. Glad to hear you got it taken care of. I myself installed phaser lockouts in my sister's 2007 Expedition Limited. At the same time I also did the chains, tensioners, guides and Melling oil pump (not the HV pump) She wanted trouble free driving for a couple more years, and that's what we got. She recently bought an F-150 5.0 and the Expedition is up for sale.

I did the job a little over 2 years ago now. Lockouts came with an SCT X4 tuner with a custom file for the VCT lockout installed in it. The engine runs silky smooth, doesn't appear to be down on power in any way and is whisper quiet. Only sound we can hear is the injectors clicking. With the tuner installed there has never been an engine light at all. Some of you call this a hack job repair by "shysters" but I had great luck with it, with no noticeable ill effects. We also switched to a 5w30 synthetic and FL-820S filter as per Fordtechmakuloco's recommendation.

Hey Wedge...did you do the custom tune with the SCT X4 yourself or have a shop do it? Curious how easy that might’ve been.
Also...Do you still have the SCT X4?


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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[WEDGE]

Hey Wedge...did you do the custom tune with the SCT X4 yourself or have a shop do it? Curious how easy that might’ve been.
Also...Do you still have the SCT X4?


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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I bought the lockouts and tuner as a package. It came pre-programmed with the VCT lockout tune already uploaded into it. All I had to do was plug it into the OBD port, follow the on screen prompts and all is well.

 

[JExpedition07]

The camphasers are pretty robust and do not fail by themselves, they only fail if you have an underlying oil pressure problem....so when they make noise and throw a CEL it is warning you of troubles. Locking out the phasers fixes well, nothing and if an oil pressure issue is present it masks it and will lead to engine damage. This is why most look down upon phaser lockouts, they were sold as a fix to the noisy engine and trouble codes when they don’t fix anything (problem is blown out tensioner seals and/or weak oil pump). Phasers are always the symptom and never the problem. Lockouts are like Tylenol for a broken leg...you still need surgery the Tylenol isn’t meshing the bone back together. That being said lockouts aren’t going to hurt your engine in any way-you are fine. They do reduce top end power-that’s just physics of intake induction.....you take away the cams ability to retard you take away high rev power. You fixed the blown out tensioner so the engine is reliable and if your happy all is well.

 

[07navi]

I heard your advice and others and was very kind thanking you for it. But I chose to lock them out. Your response came across harsh and controlling. It’s possible to kindly disagree without the rhetoric.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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Next time pay some American online mechanics to help you...……...
Don't look gift horses in the mouth.

 

[TobyU]

I hear you. It was a sacrifice I opted to make. Like I said earlier...I've spent way more $ on this 2007 than I expected to, and since I'd already done so many repairs/upgrades on it...I couldn't just walk away from it. At the same time...I'm not going to spend another dollar cracking open the engine again either. It has 170k on it. If this meant some less HP but no future issues with cam phasers (a known weak spot on these engines)...then I'm all in.

O7Navi, I said I appreciate your input. But I also have the right to recommend lock-outs as much as you have the right to NOT recommend them. Your statement sounded awfully controlling and un-american.

The fact that you've put this much money into it is exactly the types of stories that prevent me from buying anything newer than 2004 on the Ford trucks right now. I will just buy super clean low mile O3 to 04 because I refuse to have an 05 and up currently.
I'm certainly not the norm though but it does work for me.

 

[Shantheman73]

Update:
I ordered the 5 Star locked VCT tune and flashed my PCM today.
Wow what a difference. The check engine light is gone, and the increase in power is noticeable.
Locking out the VCT might not have been everyone’s first choice...but fuel economy is slightly up and power feels fully restored with the tune.
The SCT X4 was a cinch to use too.
Kudos to 5 Star


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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