Irradic Temperature Guage

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doublethrow

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Bought a used 2013 Expedition (XLT 2WD 5.4L). Noticed a small coolant leak underneath coming from middle of the vehicle.

Garage thought it was the freeze plug which didn't make sense because the car never left the south US. They said it's fine to drive as long as you keep coolant in it.

Drove it for one day on the interstate filling up the overflow tank regularly. After about 200 miles, it overheated (AC shutoff, temperature gauge on H) and I had it towed back to the garage for fear of burning up the engine.

Their analysis found that it was a failed Coolant Outlet Crossover Manifold. They changed that, intake manifold gasket and Thermostat. $2k before tax. They ran pressure overnight to ensure no leaks. They also drove it to test it and the temp gauge showed no major fluctuations.

I picked it up from the garage and drove it on the highway to test it. When approaching 60mph the temperature gauge starts running hot and I notice that the cooling fan is running hard to compensate. At one point it overheated and the AC shutoff. Each time it got hot, within seconds it showed a normal engine temp on the gauge. Then if I accelerated to 60mph it would run hot again and after letting off the gas it immediately returned to normal operating range on the temp gauge.

I tried to burp the radiator by revving the engine in neutral for 30 seconds, twice. I ensured there was plenty of coolant in the reservoir.

Another symptom: there is a large amount of coolant now coming from the radiator most likely the radiator's overflow hose (not to be confused with the overflow tank reservoir).

Dropped it back off at the garage tonight.
 
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doublethrow

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Update: radiator was leaking at the seam. They popped in a new radiator and the leak is no longer happening. They did not find exhaust in the coolant so that rules out a head gasket leak. But...
1) the temperature gauge is still fluctuating during accelerating albeit drops to normal range after a few seconds
2) the engine fan is running on high while driving
3) the heater is blowing air so hot it almost burns your hand.

Should I just change out the pump? I was thinking perhaps one of the fins in the impeller broke off and the pump can't keep up with the load with increase engine load.

IMG_20210713_165147426.jpgIMG_20210713_204659660.jpg
 

Hamfisted

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The waterpump is 4 bolts, quick and easy. Are you doing the work yourself ? I'm surprised the shop didn't pressure test it to begin with. I know there's many different grades of shops out there. The temp sending unit is under the intake manifold on the passenger side cylinder head toward the rear. It can be changed out without pulling the intake manifold, but the shop is probably gonna charge you for pulling the intake manifold anyway. Is the engine actually overheating? Or is it just the sending unit going crazy and causing the fan to run high and everything else ? Does it smell hot or crackle when you shut it down after this event ?



Replace CHT sensor without pulling intake manifold .... Ford 5.4 3V motor

Duralast SU8756 Sensor






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doublethrow

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The shop pressure tested overnight. No leaks. And no visible leaks now as far as I can tell.

The engine is showing hot on the gauge (see pics) sometimes under load but not always and only for a few seconds. The fan is running high after a 20 minute city commute but I don't see it overheating. No cackling after shutoff.
 
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doublethrow

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IMG_20210715_182929066.jpg
It overheats at highway speeds. AC on. Engine fan turns on high. Heater blowing extremely hot. I am thinking a water pump fin broke off or sending until is faulty. Thermostat is brand new OEM.
 

dcsang

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Orange coolant maintenance is 100K miles so if you're pulling the water pump you might want to consider flushing the system while you're at it. Motorcraft replaced it with yellow VC13 that's good for 200K miles, providing the system was completely flushed.
 
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doublethrow

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The garage said they flushed the system when they changed the radiator. In summary here is the work that was done:
1) Coolant Crossover replaced
2) Thermostat replaced
3) Radiator Replaced and new coolant

What else could be the issue?
 

dcsang

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The waterpump is 4 bolts, quick and easy. Are you doing the work yourself ? I'm surprised the shop didn't pressure test it to begin with. I know there's many different grades of shops out there. The temp sending unit is under the intake manifold on the passenger side cylinder head toward the rear. It can be changed out without pulling the intake manifold, but the shop is probably gonna charge you for pulling the intake manifold anyway. Is the engine actually overheating? Or is it just the sending unit going crazy and causing the fan to run high and everything else ? Does it smell hot or crackle when you shut it down after this event ?



Replace CHT sensor without pulling intake manifold .... Ford 5.4 3V motor
This is solid advice.
 

dcsang

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Are you doing this work yourself? OEM water pump and temp sensor isn't a big investment and can be replaced with a little time and effort. Is this a guaranteed resolution? No, but considering the information you have provided it is both logical and cost-effective to follow Hamfisted's advice. Also check the condition of your drive belt.

IDK the going rate in your area but 2K for the work you mentioned seems high, especially since your initial concern was not resolved.
 
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doublethrow

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I was not planning to do the work myself. Does the temp sensor feed the thermostat in that it measures the temperature and tells the thermostat to open and close?
 
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doublethrow

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Seems to happen mostly when AC is running. Could the AC be requiring more torque than normal?
 

tommyddsr

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If the AC was dragging you'd that bad you would hear your belt squeal. It wouldn't cause the engine to overheat on it's own. Definitely check the temp sensor as it controls the fan as well as providing your temp readings.
 
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doublethrow

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Very helpful gents. Thank you. Which of these is the correct temp sensor and can I replace it/them without major work?

Duralast Coolant Temperature Sensor SU8781
Part # SU8781
SKU # 631220
Notes: Coolant temp sensor

Duralast Coolant Temperature Sensor SU8756
Part # SU8756
SKU # 631221
Notes: Cyl head temp sensor

Santech Coolant Temperature Sensor CT0185
Part #CT0185
SKU #101898
Notes: Engine Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor
 
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doublethrow

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The dash gauge will hit H which causes the AC to turn off. But I don't feel any cylinders turning off and entering limp mode. It only stays on H for a few seconds before returning to the nominal temperature. The engine fan is running hard occasionally but not always.

Where would I measure the temp inside the engine to independently confirm whether it is actually hot?
 
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doublethrow

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I measured the engine temp at various places. Registers 159-180. Coming out of the radiator it is ~100. Going into the radiator is ~180.

I am confident that this is primarily happening under speed (70mph). But even accelerating to 50mph shows the gauge move.
 

07navi

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They probably put a Motorcraft thermostat in it but if not there is a chance your stat isn't working right. These modular engines have a double water passage system above and below the stat. The stat needs to shut off the bottom passage when the top part is open, making it critical that you have the proper stat in it. Some aftermarket stats don't even have the bottom plunger/shutoff part and others don't properly shut the bottom passage off. You can be sure with the Motorcraft ones.

But...... if it's not going into limp mode on extended highway speed trips I doubt if it is running hot, regardless of what the gauge says. The sending unit for the gauge is under the intake manifold and tricky to get to if you want to try changing that.
 
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