2003 Expedition Face Lift Begins

[Vancouver Bob]

Yup, you're right. Sounds like you know a thing or two about the wheel balancers. I've always wondered if you could have a perfectly balanced wheel/tire, but still have a bad ride. Seems like if something were out of round or bent, you could still get it to balance. Maybe that's where the road force balance comes in? Thanks, Moose (hope you don't mind me calling you Moose )

Just to add... I've been on a freeway a fair amount since having it rebalanced and it's riding way better. Even took it up to 70 and didn't feel the vibe. I'll have to give it a good shake down (hopefully not literally) tomorrow.

 

[1955moose]

Everybody these days calls me moose.I Have a friend that also is a mechanic, had 4 new tires mounted in San Jose Ca. The shop that mounted them had a bad balancer. He had them rebalance only to have them still shake. He went to another shop to have them rebalanced, after the second shop, shaking went away. Most balancers work fine, but the one in the first shop definitely needed repair.


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[ExpeditionAndy]

Well, after a long delay due to business travel and just being too busy, a couple of things to share...

Drove up to Kelso to have the bumper worked on again. Doctored up the ends where it ties into the trim. The guy did a really good job and I'm thrilled with how it turned out. I also had him weld the A-frame back on. Tried the bumper in all white but didn't like it so it's now back to two toned. Just need to add a little more beige to tie the two together.

And here's the after...

View attachment 20834

Bob that looks really good. Are you going to have your bumper professionally painted for finish longevity or are you going the rattle can method?

 

[PHIL CLACK]

I just had a road force balance and full alignment done on my 04 EB to try and resolve a vibe I get at about 70mph. I'm at 104k miles on the truck.
This was done by the dealership in San Jose, ca.
No joy.
Still troubleshooting....


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[1955moose]

You might want to have drive shaft balanced. Years back I did a boneheaded thing when changing out a ujoint. I didn't mark the yoke where it attached to the unjoint. It made noise and vibration above 60mph. Swapped out another joint and realigned shaft, problem went away. Vibrations and shakes can be tough to pin down.


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[PHIL CLACK]

You might want to have drive shaft balanced. Years back I did a boneheaded thing when changing out a ujoint. I didn't mark the yoke where it attached to the unjoint. It made noise and vibration above 60mph. Swapped out another joint and realigned shaft, problem went away. Vibrations and shakes can be tough to pin down.


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Good point Moose, I worry about it because these things don't usually improve with age.
I'm going to take it back and have the dealership and see if it can be isolated.
I want to get it dialed in before I add a leveling kit and larger tires.
I don't think that it's a bent wheel as I have had them rotated a couple of times.

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[1955moose]

I figured you or the dealer would have rotated is why I didn't mention it. The fact that it's at 70, and not lower, tends to sound like something out of balance. Loose tie rods, ball joints, and other front end parts, usually have a shaking or noise at a lower speed. Is your vehicle four wheel drive? Other thing if it is could possibly be a front axle having a balance issue. Keep us posted.


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[Vancouver Bob]

Bob that looks really good. Are you going to have your bumper professionally painted for finish longevity or are you going the rattle can method?

Hi Andy, yes, the plan is to have it painted once I finalize the config and color scheme. I'm luke warm about the A frame being back on there. I think I liked the more subtle offroad look. Going to give it a little more time to see if it grows on me.

I need to get the finishing touches done...

• lights mounted (should just be able to swap connectors since the LED lights draw less power than the original fog lights)
• Securing the lower mud/stone guard that protects the radiator as well as the wheel well covers.
• Still need to do a little trimming to eliminate the last of the rubbing of the tires. So far I've only trimmed the end of the running boards. Still hear a slight rubbing when turning/articulating.

 

[Vancouver Bob]

You might want to have drive shaft balanced. Years back I did a boneheaded thing when changing out a ujoint. I didn't mark the yoke where it attached to the unjoint. It made noise and vibration above 60mph. Swapped out another joint and realigned shaft, problem went away. Vibrations and shakes can be tough to pin down.

I had a vibration on my Subaru Forester that I spend months chasing down. Rebalancing, ball joints, tie rods, struts. Tie rods made the biggest improvements but it didn't go away until the final time I had the tires balanced and they told me I had a bent wheel. Then took 3 attempts at buying used wheels off ebay before I found one that wasn't bent. Now she runs nice and smooth.

 

[1955moose]

Hard to believe they couldn't detect a bent wheel, especially when you returned so many times. Problem is 90 percent of tire shops hire kids, or inexperienced older men. For most situations it works fine, but when a tech needs to think a little, their lies the problem. What I can't understand on your Forester when you rotated you still had shaking in the front. It was possible you had more than one bent wheel, causing your issue.


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[ExpeditionAndy]

Bob did you get anything else done this week?

 

[Vancouver Bob]

Hi Andy,

No, the 4th of July week was all work and play but no working on the Expedition. I did get a couple more cans of the touch up paint on Friday but no intermediate shaft to fix the slop in my steering. I had placed the original order thru A1Auto but a couple of days after I ordered it they sent me a message saying the part wasn't in stock and didn't know when they'd get more so they cancelled the order and reimbursed me. Ended up ordering it thru Amazon... should be here by Wednesday.

 

[Vancouver Bob]

You've got to remember, last thing an employee wants to tell a boss, is he's got to spend his money to keep everything right. No unfortunately they wait till a machine breaks, or they have so many complaints, then they have to fix it. Would be nice if the companies that sell the equipment came out on a regular fix it basics, to make sure all is well. Never happens. Besides balancing, the biggest culprit is the 4 sensitive heads on a 4 wheel alignment rack. Besides the education difference between a junior or senior tech to compensate for issues on a four or all wheel vehicle, if one of the sensitive heads gets dropped, then all measurements are thrown off. Again a subordinate employee will never tell his superior he dropped an expensive piece of equipment. Just the way it is I guess.


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You're right... too bad it has to be that way, vs focusing on the best customer experience. Ultimately they keep having to rebalance for free and at some point the issue reveals itself to someone who cares enough to take care of it. Oh well. In the mean time...

I received the new intermediate shaft to fix the slop in my steering. Will get that installed tomorrow. Looks like an easy job... the most difficult part may be reaching the lower bolt.

 

[Vancouver Bob]

I also contacted a highly recommended shop to see how much it would cost to regear the differentials. Was quoted $650 for the install and about $650 for the gears, install kit (bearings/shims), and seals. Times 2. Yikes! I'll shop around a bit more. The parts cost seems about right based on what I'm seeing online. You can get cheaper but I'd be afraid of getting what I pay for. Do I really need to regear? She seems to like a little more RPM's in the higher gears, especially when going uphill. We'll see.

 

[Vancouver Bob]

Got the intermediate steering shaft swapped out just now. It was a pretty simple job... only thing that made it difficult was the lower bolt wasn't easily accessible and blind plus once I got the socket/extension on there I could only turn it about 1/8 of a turn at a time. Plus it had loctite on there so it didn't loosen up very quickly.

Once I got it out I was really disappointed to find that it wasn't loose at the end that I thought was loose. But as I twisted and turned I did feel a tiny bit of play on the lower end (arrowed). Got the new one in and drove it around... steering was noticeably tighter. took it on the freeway and the play I had was completely gone! One less thing to worry about .

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Bob, what rear gears do you have in there now?

Here is a chart based on tire size and the article has formulas for calculating the right gears.

http://www.southwestpowersports.com/gearchange.html

This one is a simple calculator: http://www.crawlpedia.com/gear_ratio_calculator.htm

This one is specifically for larger tires: http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/gearandtirechart.shtml


I've heard that over time dirt gets in that lower knuckle and and it starts to wear. It is amazing a little play translates into a lot of play at the wheel.

 

[Vancouver Bob]

Thanks for the chart, Andy. I've been playing with the calculators and initially thought I'd go 4.11 but based on what I'm reading, many say the 4.56 is a better choice, especially since I've got 3.73's in there now. I'm still a little sticker shocked at the cost. I'd be tempted to try doing it myself but it sounds a bit tricky. The differential is probably not a good place to learn how to set gears for the first time .

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

I've watched a few videos on how rear gears are changed and it didn't look look like something that I wanted to tackle.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Hi Bob, did you get any further on this project?

 

[Vancouver Bob]

Hi Andy...

Just back from two weeks in Malaysia for work.

Not much to report except I did go out to the beach for a camping trip with the kids. Drove over the Coastal Range and she did pretty well. There was only one time where the Expedition needed to down shift one more gear than usual to maintain speed. I took a different way home and didn't have any issues going that way. Based on this, I've decided to hold off on the regearing. Besides, I need to shift dollars to the kid's college loans.

Did great in the sand but I got a little over ambitious trying to pull a mini van off the beach. The guy was stuck just past the entry and was talking to the towing company as I pulled beside him. Saved him a little cash. Didn't take much to pull him onto the beach but then he asked me to pull him back off the beach. Thought I could do it but there was a black pick up on the main ramp (hard surface) helping a Honda SUV driver that couldn't figure out how to engage his 4wheel drive... so I thought I would try going around him in the loose sand. I knew I was going to be in trouble as I started pulling because of the deep ruts I was having to plow thru. Ended up getting to where all 4 wheels were digging in. This is where I would have high centered with the old setup . Got just past the guy with the black truck so he chained up to my bumper and it took the two of us the get the minivan the rest of the way out. Happy to report that the bumper didn't get ripped off the front of the Expedition .

A light, blowing fog... I decided to cut the A frame back off after this trip . I prefer the more "subtle" look.