2015-2017 Gear ratios and towing

[coolzzy]

The expedition does not have a car chassis, it is a ladder frame body on frame SUV with independent rear suspension. Towing is only problematic with improperly equipped for towing, I. E. A WDH not setup correctly, wrong tires, improper loading, etc. Look in the towing section here and see what others are towing with expeditions, both the old 5.4 and ecoboost versions. The higher trim vehicle you purchase, the lower the payload you roll have. Do not trust the dealer, trust the yellow sticker on the truck door frame. Dealers will quote you maximum figures for the vehicle platform, not necessarily the one you are looking at buying.

My 17XLT EL 4x4 with HD tow pulls my rv through the mountains of Idaho without any issues. My trailer weighs 6300 pounds. I would feel comfortable pulling up to 8k with good WDH and LT tires. I use a husky centerline TS hitch with 1k pound bars and am stable at speeds up to 75mph. You won't find another full size SUV that will pull like an ecoboost expedition except maybe for a 6.2L Yukon xl but interior space and comfort is greater in the expedition due to the independant rear suspension. A 17 will have sync 3 and limited slip differential. Add a powertrain warranty to cover the turbos and motor and you will have a sound reliable towing platform. My wife daily drives our EL and has no trouble, it turns sharper than a pickup and is shorter.

 

[JExpedition07]

That’s what I like about the EL, it’s decent sized and has good interior space but it’s still a small vehicle. A lot shorter than a pickup or van easy to manage.

 

[Ilka Wagner]

Do not trust the dealer, trust the yellow sticker on the truck door frame. Dealers will quote you maximum figures for the vehicle platform, not necessarily the one you are looking at buying.

I have been looking at the yellow sticker. I have yet to find one over 1382# payload capacity. I was told by the dealer that this is how the vehicle was rated PRIOR to any upgrades, IE Towing package, 4x4, etc. Ford rates them on their website up to 1640# I believe but I sure can't find a sticker that approaches that. What is the rating on yours?

We have a Husky WDH that we currently use on our 1 ton van, just would need to be readjusted to the Expedition for the times we decide to use it instead.
One dealer insisted that Payload was only what is in the vehicle and did NOT include the weight placed on the hitch. Not sure that is correct though. I think it total payload does include whatever weight you put on the hitch, correct?

 

[JExpedition07]

This is the sticker from my totaled 2007 XLT....it was a pretty basic 4WD truck

 

[Ilka Wagner]

Haven't seen anything close on a 2015 or newer though...

 

[JExpedition07]

You’ll find something, and the lower rating expy you found may suffice. It all depends on your situation and the weights....only you can do the math.

 

[chuck s]

I had a 2007 and now have a 2017. Both are XLT 4x4 with HD Tow. The '17 has things like a powered 3d seat and rear hatch and maybe a few other items including the Ford trailer brake controller.

My 2007 had a cargo and passenger capacity of 1585 pounds. The 2017 is only rated at 1416 pounds.

From the data plates:

Expeditions
Payload GVWR FAWR RAWR
2007 1585 7700 3550 4250
2017 1416 7500 3550 4300
delta -169 -200 0 50

-- Chuck

 

[MuddySpokes]

Right now we are using a 1 ton van

I suspected something like that but wanted to make sure. Even with a good WD setup, will find it surprising if the towing experience feels as solid when comparing to the van. Just to make it clear, am not bashing, but am offering expectations to minimize the surprise factor.

And back to those weights, best bet is to get real numbers rather than guessing about loaded weight. Sometimes there are big differences between guesstimates and the scales If a certified scale is too far away, try looking for a local recycling center or municipal dump as these places commonly have scales.

I think it total payload does include whatever weight you put on the hitch, correct?

Yes. Just to make sure we are on the same page, the weight on the ball (tongue weight) counts toward payload. But this is *not* the trailer's total weight.

There are two ways to get the tongue weight:
- self-evident: get the weight of just the jack-stand with the ball raised to the correct tow height and hitch dangling from the trailer (or just put the hitch on the scale pad). A certified scale can do this while also getting the total trailer weight. Just put the jack-stand and axles on different pads.

- total rig approach: weight the tow vehicle *without* the trailer. Put the front and rear axle on different pads as these numbers are important for the next step. Do a second round *with* the trailer and WD hitch setup to tow. Put the van's front axle, van's rear axle, and trailer's axles (all) on different pads. The increase in the van's weight (total on both axles) is the amount of payload that the trailer is adding. This method is desirable as it also gives the amount of weight that the hitch is passing to the front axle. From these numbers, you are in a better place to start interpolating as to the Expedition's capacity.

 

[gregcm21]

For reference, our 2017 4x4 EL Platinum has 3.73 with limited slip and 22's.

 

[NASCAR Mike]

Here is the sticker from my 2017 Expedition Limited. It has the self leveling Nivomat rear shocks.

 

[Ilka Wagner]

I suspected something like that but wanted to make sure. Even with a good WD setup, will find it surprising if the towing experience feels as solid when comparing to the van. Just to make it clear, am not bashing, but am offering expectations to minimize the surprise factor.

And back to those weights, best bet is to get real numbers rather than guessing about loaded weight. Sometimes there are big differences between guesstimates and the scales If a certified scale is too far away, try looking for a local recycling center or municipal dump as these places commonly have scales.




Yes. Just to make sure we are on the same page, the weight on the ball (tongue weight) counts toward payload. But this is *not* the trailer's total weight.

There are two ways to get the tongue weight:
- self-evident: get the weight of just the jack-stand with the ball raised to the correct tow height and hitch dangling from the trailer (or just put the hitch on the scale pad). A certified scale can do this while also getting the total trailer weight. Just put the jack-stand and axles on different pads.

- total rig approach: weight the tow vehicle *without* the trailer. Put the front and rear axle on different pads as these numbers are important for the next step. Do a second round *with* the trailer and WD hitch setup to tow. Put the van's front axle, van's rear axle, and trailer's axles (all) on different pads. The increase in the van's weight (total on both axles) is the amount of payload that the trailer is adding. This method is desirable as it also gives the amount of weight that the hitch is passing to the front axle. From these numbers, you are in a better place to start interpolating as to the Expedition's capacity.

We are on the same page. Decided yesterday that I am going to get the camper set up for travel like we would have it, full of water, etc and go weigh it. Then make a decision on what I want to pull it with. Wish I could do a pick up but just can't since we travel with 3 - 100# dogs that need to be in crates so there is no room in a pick up. If the Expedition doesn't work, then we will just stick with the van and I will find a small SUV to run to work with. Was just hoping to have both of our vehicles available to tow the trailer. Glad I have people to ask all these questions to!

 

[bobmbx]

We are on the same page. Decided yesterday that I am going to get the camper set up for travel like we would have it, full of water, etc and go weigh it. Then make a decision on what I want to pull it with. Wish I could do a pick up but just can't since we travel with 3 - 100# dogs that need to be in crates so there is no room in a pick up. If the Expedition doesn't work, then we will just stick with the van and I will find a small SUV to run to work with. Was just hoping to have both of our vehicles available to tow the trailer. Glad I have people to ask all these questions to!

Find yourself an Excursion.

"Solves all problems"

 

[JExpedition07]

Yep, a bit older but there’s a 3/4 ton SUV, that or you could look for a Suburban 2500 those are still built for fleet/ govt use so they come up used here and there.

The EL Expedition does fail to fill the Excursions shoes. It’s a half ton with a longer wheelbase which just eats up even more payload. I was always told it was the ex’s replacement.....well it certainly fails at that lol. The Excursion is a stronger truck through and through.

 

[Expy00]

My experience towing an 8600# TT with my '17 Expedition XLT EL:

I specifically searched for the 3.73 Axle (and 4x4 EL) even though the 3.31 also gives a lower overall 1st gear ratio than my 2500 HD GMC Sierra with 4.10 gears. The Expedition was the ONLY late model with enough tow capacity that I could find. The Armada is rated at 8500#.
I just returned from a 2200 mile trip. I was completely satisfied with the power (and torque) of the Ecoboost in the steep mountains (to 8000 feet elevation) of New Mexico. I really like the six speed transmission and the gear limiter setting in AUTO for descending hills and controlling speed.

But the trailer is not as stable as towing with my 3/4 ton GMC. Twice at highway speeds, the Expy's anti-sway activated. When a truck would pass the vehicle would suck closer than push out. I had to purchase a new WD hitch the second day out. It was set up by the dealer. It made no difference in sway stability. Airing the trailer tire to max (80 pounds for Load range "E") and truck tires to max made some improvement. I am thinking of putting Load Range "E" on the Expedition also. They are noted as STANDARD rating with only 44 psi max. And loading the WD more and really tightening the anti-sway friction bar gave a the final couple of days with little or no sway at 65 MPH. A speed I did not attempt on the first half of the trip.

I won't say problem solved, but I am getting there. However, it is not like hooking up to GMC and going. (i know weight distribution in the trailer is important and have not loaded the back too heavily.) The Expy was NOT over loaded with just two adult an all our gear in the TT.

(Bottom line though is as the RV dealer said when I bought the new hitch. The Expy is a half ton, not a 3/4 ton and I can't expect it to be as stable.)

 

[Adieu]

A couple hundred pounds extra won't change anything for a 6000 lb fullsize truck

Don't obsess.

Probably also don't do it while towing, but I've exceeded payload by + >1000 lbs before and it just squats lower, otherwise drives fine. And actually handles better (lol).

 

[FisherPete]

I intentionally bought mine with the load leveling, anti-sway suspension. Without that, you won't be happy with an 8200 pound trailer. I'd suggest you probably won't be happy anyway as it's awfully close to the limit of design.

 

[chuck s]

In "insultingly" simple terms the differential does two things: (1) changes the rotation of the driveshaft to that of the wheels and (2) acts as a torque multiplier (gear reduction) to push the vehicle down the road.

The 3.5EcoBoost has gobs more torque than the 5.4V8 making torque multiplication redundant in many respects. 3.31 ratio 3.5EB is probably puts more torque to the rear wheels than 3.73 ration 5.4V8 which is why my '17 tows better than my '17. Pure speculation on my part but someone has the numbers.

-- Chuck

 

[chuck s]

In "insultingly" ; simple terms the differential does two things: (1) changes the rotation of the driveshaft to that of the wheels and (2) acts as a torque multiplier (gear reduction) to push the vehicle down the road.

The 3.5EcoBoost has gobs more torque than the 5.4V8 making torque multiplication redundant in many respects. 3.31 ratio 3.5EB is probably puts more torque to the rear wheels than 3.73 ration 5.4V8 which is why my '17 tows better than my '17. Pure speculation on my part but someone has the numbers.

-- Chuck

 

[coolzzy]

The nivomat suspension is not beneficial if you are using weight distributing hitch, it will make it more difficult to set up properly. With the right weight bars and the correct tension applied to them so that you do not have any sag in the rear suspension and no rise in the front suspension, and the rv is level is all you need to get dialed in right. My oem wrangler tires have a 50psi max inflation and that's what I'll run in them until they wear out and can be replaced with an LT tire (stiffer sidewall). Keep speeds under control, don't drive like there isn't 30ft of trailer behind you and allow extra stopping and accelerating distances. There is no modern day replacement vehicle for an EL ecoboost expedition for towing purposes. If an expy won't do it, you need a pickup with a shell on the back for your dog crates, or leave the dogs at home.

 

[JerEazy]

Take it from a guy who went through the same query and search.

Don’t do it. Just because you technically can. Doesn’t me you should, and doesn’t mean you want to.

The expedition is a great vehicle. Comfortable and capable. But, (as said in posts before me) not very stable at speed when sowing TTs near the vehicles capacity. It’s not the weight, it’s the length and stability. The suspension is just too soft to take it properly. I only tow my 24’ (29’ total length) 7500lb GVWR grey wolf around Florida. So no real hills to speak of. But a gust of wind or a few good trucks passing me will get yah puckered. And I’ve tried all the potential “solutions” including 3 different WD/sway control hitches (including equalizer) none of them solved the issue.

Find yourself a nice used 2500/250 Work Truck version/XL. Will be more comfortable than the van, and more capable than the Expy.

Just my .02