2015 Expedition Engine Rattle

[grdsman]

My wife's Expedition developed a slight rattle yesterday morning, which quickly developed into the attached noise. It sounds like it's coming from the timing chain. I'm planning on getting it to Ford this afternoon. This isn't like the "startup tick" that people describe at all. It also isn't pulling any codes, surprisingly. 84k miles. What are your thoughts?



Mike

 

[JExpedition07]

Sounds like that might be timing chain going out (stretched)

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10143100-9999.pdf

 

[grdsman]

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10143100-9999.pdf

You think it sounds like this problem?

 

[JExpedition07]

The general thought of why the chain Stretch happens on some EcoBoosts is because Ford used a single timing chain in these years for both banks. The 5.4 V8 for example has a twin timing chain setup (1 chain for each bank). When you put a lot of torque on one chain it can stretch excessively over time and miles. If this is the issue they will likely to the standard timing job with new chain and tensioners etc. I’m not an expert on these engines so it may be something I’m not considering.

 

[MidwestBoater]

Oh damn, that sure doesn't sound good. What does the oil change history look like? Just curious.

 

[762mm]

A diagnostic at Ford dealer is ok, but if you're gonna have them perform the work too, I sincerely hope the truck is on warranty... if not, bring yourself some Vaseline.

I'd bring it to a shop or a guy who specializes in fixing pickup trucks (F150s).

 

[762mm]

The general thought of why the chain Stretch happens on some EcoBoosts is because Ford used a single timing chain in these years for both banks. The 5.4 V8 for example has a twin timing chain setup (1 chain for each bank). When you put a lot of torque on one chain it can stretch excessively over time and miles. If this is the issue they will likely to the standard timing job with new chain and tensioners etc. I’m not an expert on these engines so it may be something I’m not considering.

That's lovely. More proof that as time goes on, they are built cheaper and cheaper, with planned obsolescence in mind.

There go all the fuel savings over the "gas guzzling" 5.4L Triton, all in one shot!

 

[grdsman]

It's at the dealer that I bought it from, so we'll see what their diagnosis is (no ESP). My bet is they'll want to drop a new engine in rather than a timing set. I watched a YouTube video on how to do this job, so I'm basically a mechanic now. I think I can do it. Seriously though, this may not be beyond my capability rather than just drop a new engine in.....$1,000 in parts and tools. The gamble would be if it caused any other damage to the engine that I won't know about until the job is done.

 

[JExpedition07]

It's at the dealer that I bought it from, so we'll see what their diagnosis is (no ESP). My bet is they'll want to drop a new engine in rather than a timing set. I watched a YouTube video on how to do this job, so I'm basically a mechanic now. I think I can do it. Seriously though, this may not be beyond my capability rather than just drop a new engine in.....$1,000 in parts and tools. The gamble would be if it caused any other damage to the engine that I won't know about until the job is done.

If they diagnose as the chain you can likely just do the timing set. As long as the chain didn’t let a valve meet a piston short block and heads ok. If you do so it would be great to have an EcoBoost write up on here, most have it done by the dealers so Expy owners haven’t gotten much owner insight yet. If not desired....totally understandable lol.

 

[grdsman]

Well, the dealer called tonight and said it is actually the water pump that let go. The cost isn’t much better though. They quoted $1900 for the pump and flush. They also quoted $600 for a leaking vacuum brake booster pump. I can do that myself though, and will. They are going to work the numbers and see if they can get the cost down a bit before I agree to anything. At least it’s not the chain! I can see why the pump would make a racket in that area though.


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[JExpedition07]

Thanks for the update, interesting that’s some $$$ for a water pump.

 

[grdsman]

Thanks for the update, interesting that’s some $$$ for a water pump.

Right?!! That’s a bit of labor though. You are almost to the chain when you get the water pump out.


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[MidwestBoater]

That's outrageous for a water pump.. I just did the pump on my '16, it's external, not internal like most people seem to think. The motorcraft pump was like $80 from Rock Auto and you're replacing most of the coolant anyway since you have to drain the radiator before hand and half the coolant in the engine barfs out of the hoses and waterpump when you remove it. It's really not that bad of a job if you've wrenched on a car before. Even if you don't do it yourself, call around to other shops, it shouldn't be more than a few hours of labor.

 

[HawkX66]

Doing the water pump on a 15-17 is 1/2 hour job. An hour if you're putzing around. Like MidwestBoater said, the pump itself is cheap too. The only thing that takes any time is pulling the turbo tubes off to get to it.

 

[grdsman]

Doing the water pump on a 15-17 is 1/2 hour job. An hour if you're putzing around. Like MidwestBoater said, the pump itself is cheap too. The only thing that takes any time is pulling the turbo tubes off to get to it.

View attachment 33533

I see that now. It must have been the older ones that were harder. If they don’t come back with a heck of a deal today, I’ll be doing it myself. It doesn’t look hard at all.



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[JExpedition07]

Right?!! That’s a bit of labor though. You are almost to the chain when you get the water pump out.


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On transverse EcoBoosts like the Taurus and Explorer it’s extremely difficult to change the water pump. On RWD it’s not as bad, I’m wondering if they even popped your hood and saw it’s a regular pump.

 

[grdsman]

So, they lowered it to $1700. This includes the water pump, new degas bottle and hose (do we have a degas??? I thought it was a recovery tank) and coolant flush. If I replace all of that myself, it's about $500. They said the 'degas' was leaking too. They also said the brake booster vacuum pump is leaking, but I can definitely do that myself. 3 bolts. They wanted $600 for it and it's an $80 part. I'll probably be doing all of it myself in an afternoon. There's not much to it. The only thing stopping me from letting them know that I'll be picking it up this afternoon is that they are working with the used car department, whom I bought it from 3 months ago, to see if they will be willing to work with us on it. They have a 90 day 'warranty'.

 

[HawkX66]

So, they lowered it to $1700. This includes the water pump, new degas bottle and hose (do we have a degas??? I thought it was a recovery tank) and coolant flush. If I replace all of that myself, it's about $500. They said the 'degas' was leaking too. They also said the brake booster vacuum pump is leaking, but I can definitely do that myself. 3 bolts. They wanted $600 for it and it's an $80 part. I'll probably be doing all of it myself in an afternoon. There's not much to it. The only thing stopping me from letting them know that I'll be picking it up this afternoon is that they are working with the used car department, whom I bought it from 3 months ago, to see if they will be willing to work with us on it. They have a 90 day 'warranty'.

They should be covering all that by the sounds of it IMO. "Degas bottle" and "recovery tank" terms are used pretty interchangeably. The tank is part of your air cleaner box. You can buy one of those used off somewhere like "car-part.com" unless you really want to buy a new one.